4 ms·

The only metric which matters is fatalities per billion km, which is lower for machine drivers.

mulmen 9y ago
While I agree we should control for distance when comparing humans to machines I think we should also compare the type of driving. Are machines safer at driving on ice? How many human-driven fatalities happen on ice or in inclement weather?
- daveguy 9y ago
  On ice... Or driving without secondary human intervention. When a human is intervening every 1-1,000 miles do we really know how machine driven fatalities compare to human driven fatalities? So far we have metrics on how autonomous driving fatalities where the machines are treated like a student driver in limited road conditions -- they don't drive in the rain and an instructor is ready to take over. I wonder how the fatalities per billion miles compares between autonomous systems vs student drivers in driver's ed. I don't recall a story about a driver's ed fatality and there has probably been a lot more miles in drivers ed than autonomous miles.
  - visarga 9y ago
    > When a human is intervening every 1 1,000 miles do we really know how machine driven fatalities compare to human driven fatalities? Do you think remote drivers can intervene so fast as to prevent a crash? I think it's only useful when the car is blocked in traffic in an unusual situation, such as when something happened to the road, or there is a protest, or something like that. SDC's should be able to stop on their own when a dangerous situation appears.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  Waymo likes to play up statistics that don't matter. For instance, most of their "hundreds of thousands of miles driven" statistics they brag about in every press release constitute driving around the same handful of streets in Mountain View, CA. They don't experience variety of driving, just... the same set of roads repeatedly. In a place with ideal weather. And they can tick up a disengagement count to prevent an accident whenever they want. The statistic we deserve is "contiguous miles driven without intervention", and it needs to be spread across a large geographic area (something Waymo cars are completely incapable of right now due to their mapping requirements).
saosebastiao 9y ago
Only if you assume that the miles are equivalent, but they aren't. The machines are handed the easy work because that's what they're currently good enough at handling, and they have a human standing by to take over at a moment's notice.
danso 9y ago
So by your rationale, we should be deploying self-driving cars now? Because AFAIK, the number of fatalities per km for cars classified as self-driving is zero, especially if you ignore all the accidents in which the human participant tried to intervene. Which of the self-driving car companies do you think would argue that their cars are now safe for general usage?

While I agree we should control for distance when comparing humans to machines I think we should also compare the type of driving. Are machines safer at driving on ice? How many human-driven fatalities happen on ice or in inclement weather?

daveguy 9y ago
On ice... Or driving without secondary human intervention. When a human is intervening every 1-1,000 miles do we really know how machine driven fatalities compare to human driven fatalities? So far we have metrics on how autonomous driving fatalities where the machines are treated like a student driver in limited road conditions -- they don't drive in the rain and an instructor is ready to take over. I wonder how the fatalities per billion miles compares between autonomous systems vs student drivers in driver's ed. I don't recall a story about a driver's ed fatality and there has probably been a lot more miles in drivers ed than autonomous miles.
- visarga 9y ago
  > When a human is intervening every 1 1,000 miles do we really know how machine driven fatalities compare to human driven fatalities? Do you think remote drivers can intervene so fast as to prevent a crash? I think it's only useful when the car is blocked in traffic in an unusual situation, such as when something happened to the road, or there is a protest, or something like that. SDC's should be able to stop on their own when a dangerous situation appears.
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
Waymo likes to play up statistics that don't matter. For instance, most of their "hundreds of thousands of miles driven" statistics they brag about in every press release constitute driving around the same handful of streets in Mountain View, CA. They don't experience variety of driving, just... the same set of roads repeatedly. In a place with ideal weather. And they can tick up a disengagement count to prevent an accident whenever they want. The statistic we deserve is "contiguous miles driven without intervention", and it needs to be spread across a large geographic area (something Waymo cars are completely incapable of right now due to their mapping requirements).

saosebastiao 9y ago

Only if you assume that the miles are equivalent, but they aren't. The machines are handed the easy work because that's what they're currently good enough at handling, and they have a human standing by to take over at a moment's notice.

danso 9y ago

So by your rationale, we should be deploying self-driving cars now? Because AFAIK, the number of fatalities per km for cars classified as self-driving is zero, especially if you ignore all the accidents in which the human participant tried to intervene. Which of the self-driving car companies do you think would argue that their cars are now safe for general usage?