5 ms·

Another year, more record profits, maybe they can finally pay the fucking tax they owe.

by FridgeSeal 9y ago

inspector-g 9y ago
When has Apple not paid tax(es) they're legally obligated to have paid? Genuinely asking for sources for this claim.
- FridgeSeal 9y ago
  Literally whenever they pull the "here's a shell company we made (and own) and we totally owe them all this money for developing this product. Oh no we didn't make a profit, guess we don't have to pay any tax." Let's all just ignore the fact that the entire strategy is them saying they owe themselves all this money and for some reason we all just go along with this. They're obviously not the only company that does this, most, if not all multinationals are guilty of this and people like to brush it off as "oh but it's not illegal", as if somehow the fact that they've managed to get a legal method of tax avoidance somehow makes it all better. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/23/apple-paid-no-tax-in-new-zealand-for-at-least-a-decade-reports-say https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/23/apple-paid-no-... https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/07/australian-tax-office-says-36-of-big-firms-and-multinationals-paid-no-tax https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/07/austr... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/25/eu-to-probe-uks-anti-tax-avoidance-schemes-for-multinationals https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/25/eu-to-probe...
matthewmacleod 9y ago
What tax do Apple owe that they haven’t paid?
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Eluding taxes is super-unethical. They show off that they're environment-friendly, how about people-friendly? America made it possible for them to start a company like that (could've happened in Italy, for instance), people gave the a shitload of money, and they don't pay taxes thanks to a loophole. It doesn't matter if one is obliged by law to do something or not. I don't have to offer an old lady my seat on the bus, but what kind of piece of shit doesn't do that?
  - torstenvl 9y ago
    Super-unethical? Is there a standard rubric for that, or do you just strenuously object?
  - Helmet 9y ago
    > Eluding taxes is super-unethical. Debatable - some of us hold taxation to be tantamount to theft, so we believe in the exact opposite. I'm not here to debate or change your mind though, just offering a perspective. > America made it possible for them to start a company like that.... What do you mean by "America" made it possible? Steve Jobs, Wozniak, and all the other people who worked there made it possible. > people gave the a shitload of money, No one "gave" them money. They voluntarily purchased a product or service. > It doesn't matter if one is obliged by law to do something or not. Yes it does. > I don't have to offer an old lady my seat on the bus, but what kind of piece of shit doesn't do that? That...is a ridiculous analogy.
    - FridgeSeal 9y ago
      > some of us hold taxation to be tantamount to theft, so we believe in the exact opposite How do you like those roads you've used to go to work or shopping. Or that power/water/gas infrastructure. Or the public health system. Or maybe the emergency services? How about the legal system? They're all paid for by taxes. If you live in a country where this takes place the price is that you pay tax to contribute to the development, upkeep and use of said system. If you don't like it, I'm sure you can find a 3rd world country somewhere where you can fulfill your libertarian wet dream of building all your own infrastructure. > What do you mean by "America" made it possible? Steve Jobs, Wozniak, and all the other people who worked there made it possible. And what country did they live in that afforded them the education, resources and economy to support their work? People don't flock to America and SF to make startups because they like bay views and paying exorbitant rent. They go there because of the economic and social circumstances are favourable to starting and running a business.
      - Helmet 9y ago
        >They're all paid for by taxes. Thanks for the reminder; and to think that I've spent a lifetime just assuming that public infrastructure grew out of the ground, like grass. Look, I said I wasn't trying to change the guy's mind or debate. This isn't anything new, we've discussed this about a million times and I'm sure we'll never agree on the proper role and scope of taxation. My statement was simply a counterpoint to the completely undefended and unqualified idea that "Eluding taxes is super-unethical." >And what country did they live..... Ah yes, the cosmic effects that we must pay tribute to because we happened to be in the right place at the right time. If we're headed down that route, "America" deserves about as much credit as the invention of mathematics, or at the very least, the computer. Maybe we should thank Steve's mother. We can go down the line infinitely. The point is, people create, build, and make things, and it's those people that should be attributed and credited.
AckSyn 9y ago
Apple doesn't "owe" taxes. They pay precisely the minimum they're required by law. Will you pay more than you are required to? I guarantee you the answer to that question is no.
dang 9y ago
Could you please not do this here? Even if your underlying point is right, the combination of rote rage and political predictability destroys whatever point you're contributing. On HN, we're trying for thoughtful discussion and intellectual curiosity, not venting. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Another year, more record profits, maybe they can finally pay the fucking tax they owe.

inspector-g 9y ago

When has Apple not paid tax(es) they're legally obligated to have paid? Genuinely asking for sources for this claim.

FridgeSeal 9y ago
Literally whenever they pull the "here's a shell company we made (and own) and we totally owe them all this money for developing this product. Oh no we didn't make a profit, guess we don't have to pay any tax." Let's all just ignore the fact that the entire strategy is them saying they owe themselves all this money and for some reason we all just go along with this. They're obviously not the only company that does this, most, if not all multinationals are guilty of this and people like to brush it off as "oh but it's not illegal", as if somehow the fact that they've managed to get a legal method of tax avoidance somehow makes it all better. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/23/apple-paid-no-tax-in-new-zealand-for-at-least-a-decade-reports-say https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/23/apple-paid-no-... https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/07/australian-tax-office-says-36-of-big-firms-and-multinationals-paid-no-tax https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/07/austr... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/25/eu-to-probe-uks-anti-tax-avoidance-schemes-for-multinationals https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/25/eu-to-probe...

matthewmacleod 9y ago

What tax do Apple owe that they haven’t paid?

nkkollaw 9y ago
Eluding taxes is super-unethical. They show off that they're environment-friendly, how about people-friendly? America made it possible for them to start a company like that (could've happened in Italy, for instance), people gave the a shitload of money, and they don't pay taxes thanks to a loophole. It doesn't matter if one is obliged by law to do something or not. I don't have to offer an old lady my seat on the bus, but what kind of piece of shit doesn't do that?
- torstenvl 9y ago
  Super-unethical? Is there a standard rubric for that, or do you just strenuously object?
- Helmet 9y ago
  > Eluding taxes is super-unethical. Debatable - some of us hold taxation to be tantamount to theft, so we believe in the exact opposite. I'm not here to debate or change your mind though, just offering a perspective. > America made it possible for them to start a company like that.... What do you mean by "America" made it possible? Steve Jobs, Wozniak, and all the other people who worked there made it possible. > people gave the a shitload of money, No one "gave" them money. They voluntarily purchased a product or service. > It doesn't matter if one is obliged by law to do something or not. Yes it does. > I don't have to offer an old lady my seat on the bus, but what kind of piece of shit doesn't do that? That...is a ridiculous analogy.
  - FridgeSeal 9y ago
    > some of us hold taxation to be tantamount to theft, so we believe in the exact opposite How do you like those roads you've used to go to work or shopping. Or that power/water/gas infrastructure. Or the public health system. Or maybe the emergency services? How about the legal system? They're all paid for by taxes. If you live in a country where this takes place the price is that you pay tax to contribute to the development, upkeep and use of said system. If you don't like it, I'm sure you can find a 3rd world country somewhere where you can fulfill your libertarian wet dream of building all your own infrastructure. > What do you mean by "America" made it possible? Steve Jobs, Wozniak, and all the other people who worked there made it possible. And what country did they live in that afforded them the education, resources and economy to support their work? People don't flock to America and SF to make startups because they like bay views and paying exorbitant rent. They go there because of the economic and social circumstances are favourable to starting and running a business.
    - Helmet 9y ago
      >They're all paid for by taxes. Thanks for the reminder; and to think that I've spent a lifetime just assuming that public infrastructure grew out of the ground, like grass. Look, I said I wasn't trying to change the guy's mind or debate. This isn't anything new, we've discussed this about a million times and I'm sure we'll never agree on the proper role and scope of taxation. My statement was simply a counterpoint to the completely undefended and unqualified idea that "Eluding taxes is super-unethical." >And what country did they live..... Ah yes, the cosmic effects that we must pay tribute to because we happened to be in the right place at the right time. If we're headed down that route, "America" deserves about as much credit as the invention of mathematics, or at the very least, the computer. Maybe we should thank Steve's mother. We can go down the line infinitely. The point is, people create, build, and make things, and it's those people that should be attributed and credited.

AckSyn 9y ago

Apple doesn't "owe" taxes. They pay precisely the minimum they're required by law. Will you pay more than you are required to? I guarantee you the answer to that question is no.

dang 9y ago

Could you please not do this here? Even if your underlying point is right, the combination of rote rage and political predictability destroys whatever point you're contributing. On HN, we're trying for thoughtful discussion and intellectual curiosity, not venting. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html