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I was just thinking the other day about "finished software". These days, those Unix philosophy tools of doing one thing well and leaving small solved problems a

I was just thinking the other day about "finished software". These days, those Unix philosophy tools of doing one thing well and leaving small solved problems alone are becoming seemingly fewer and fewer.

crankylinuxuser 9y ago
Indeed. The cathedrals won. I would posit(x !) that it's because it is easier to form a community and 'cost of entrance' around a megalith like Kubernetes, than around individual tools that do 1 or a few very similar things well. Then again, I would say it's time to start looking away from "handling text streams", to something that can handle data streams of various formats, including transcoders that can convert from one type to another.
- jrochkind1 9y ago
  I think people have a limit of the number of "things" they can learn too. One big thing is one thing, 10 tiny things are 10 things. 10 things you have to learn, and then figure out the optimal (or tolerable) way for them to all work together. The original unix utilities had the benefit of (compared to now) being in a relatively simple environment, and a (much more) relatively small developer community, and a clear shared architecture understanding between and among utility and systems designers. They almost end up being more different commands or subsystems of one 'thing' then a 'thing' of their own. This is very hard to do. Unix succeeded because it was succesful at it. Once, for instance, you say "oh yeah, we want just like this, except not just text streams", as you suggest -- it gets even harder. Especially in today's environment which is not that of the unix origin.
toast0 9y ago
I don't necessarily mind relying on unfinished software; but it is tiring to rely on something that doesn't appear to be on the path to being finished. Projects with a complicated upgrade cycle and a rapidly moving upgrade treadmill are definitely a no-go.
bonesss 9y ago
There are definitely client app trends away from the Unix philosophy... I would argue that's a product of the success of the Unix philosophy, though. New apps are developed in a world where 'curl' or 'grep' exist, they can move on to more specific needs. On the platform front I believe this philosophy has recently 'won the war': Microsoft was forced to create Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) as a compatibility layer to access exactly that rich tool ecosystem and it's server & production oriented workflow... Cross platform means "not windows", even on windows. Up a few abstraction levels though, and we can see that philosophy dominating in cloud space... "Micro-services" are API enabled single-use tools focused on doing 'one thing well' and yielding coordination responsibility to higher level applications and not assuming as little as possible about their end-use. Tool silos to support new unforeseen use-cases. Even more emblematic of the Unix philosophy in cloud space is the emergence and growing popularity of "serverless" solutions: hyper focused single-use tools directly integrated into the computing environment. A single function, pumping between cloud services or transforming some text, "freed" from infrastructure. In days of old we had to build up the foundations -- text manipulation, process stats, diff capabilities -- but based on that amazing ecosystem the new generations of those tools are freed to focus on new problems and speak a more abstract and higher level language -- APIs, event queues, NLP services... Just like how some primates started grunting, and then they grunted numbers, and then they made satellites and then conquered mars with robots. Shoulders of giants, and all that :)
- digi_owl 9y ago
  I dunno. WSL seems to be more about the success of the Linux kernel API than any philosophy.

crankylinuxuser 9y ago

Indeed. The cathedrals won. I would posit(x !) that it's because it is easier to form a community and 'cost of entrance' around a megalith like Kubernetes, than around individual tools that do 1 or a few very similar things well. Then again, I would say it's time to start looking away from "handling text streams", to something that can handle data streams of various formats, including transcoders that can convert from one type to another.

jrochkind1 9y ago
I think people have a limit of the number of "things" they can learn too. One big thing is one thing, 10 tiny things are 10 things. 10 things you have to learn, and then figure out the optimal (or tolerable) way for them to all work together. The original unix utilities had the benefit of (compared to now) being in a relatively simple environment, and a (much more) relatively small developer community, and a clear shared architecture understanding between and among utility and systems designers. They almost end up being more different commands or subsystems of one 'thing' then a 'thing' of their own. This is very hard to do. Unix succeeded because it was succesful at it. Once, for instance, you say "oh yeah, we want just like this, except not just text streams", as you suggest -- it gets even harder. Especially in today's environment which is not that of the unix origin.

toast0 9y ago

I don't necessarily mind relying on unfinished software; but it is tiring to rely on something that doesn't appear to be on the path to being finished. Projects with a complicated upgrade cycle and a rapidly moving upgrade treadmill are definitely a no-go.

bonesss 9y ago

There are definitely client app trends away from the Unix philosophy... I would argue that's a product of the success of the Unix philosophy, though. New apps are developed in a world where 'curl' or 'grep' exist, they can move on to more specific needs. On the platform front I believe this philosophy has recently 'won the war': Microsoft was forced to create Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) as a compatibility layer to access exactly that rich tool ecosystem and it's server & production oriented workflow... Cross platform means "not windows", even on windows. Up a few abstraction levels though, and we can see that philosophy dominating in cloud space... "Micro-services" are API enabled single-use tools focused on doing 'one thing well' and yielding coordination responsibility to higher level applications and not assuming as little as possible about their end-use. Tool silos to support new unforeseen use-cases. Even more emblematic of the Unix philosophy in cloud space is the emergence and growing popularity of "serverless" solutions: hyper focused single-use tools directly integrated into the computing environment. A single function, pumping between cloud services or transforming some text, "freed" from infrastructure. In days of old we had to build up the foundations -- text manipulation, process stats, diff capabilities -- but based on that amazing ecosystem the new generations of those tools are freed to focus on new problems and speak a more abstract and higher level language -- APIs, event queues, NLP services... Just like how some primates started grunting, and then they grunted numbers, and then they made satellites and then conquered mars with robots. Shoulders of giants, and all that :)

digi_owl 9y ago
I dunno. WSL seems to be more about the success of the Linux kernel API than any philosophy.