4 ms·

I think a lot of this is that once a tool reaches a certain level of size and complexity, it’s impossible to know all the technical details unless you’re actual

I think a lot of this is that once a tool reaches a certain level of size and complexity, it’s impossible to know all the technical details unless you’re actually a developer on the project (and after another threshold, not even then). So at that point you have to use news and social information to find out what’s going on, and just trust that people know what they’re doing. It can be frustrating, but it’s also unavoidable. While I strive to know as much as possible about my tools, if I had to know every part of the stack backwards and forwards, I’d never get anything done. You do have to cede to the abstractions at some point.

hueving 9y ago
The important distinction here is the pace. I can use a Ubuntu server LTS version and not have to stay on top of weekly development release announcements from upstream. With k8s lacking LTS, it forces you to drink from the firehose.
- emmelaich 9y ago
  In a sense LTS is provided by vendors such as Gravitational and Red Hat. They introduce hysteresis and smooth out the bumps on the upgrade cycle.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
drdaeman 9y ago
> It can be frustrating, but it’s also unavoidable. Why unavoidable? It's not that one is forced to use some tech... Even though the hyped crowd chants the names so loudly. A lot of things that complex technology offers are not really needed (not to mention one has to constantly fight with that new complex technology when it doesn't yet do something). And complex tech can be frequently replaced with a small set of tiny scripts and small and simple standalone services. Domain and deployment-specific scripts and services that are unique, sure. But still easy to grasp mentally (and much smaller than any mature project's codebase).
- lomnakkus 9y ago
  (I haven't read the rest of your post, but I think I can still answer this little snippet...) > Why unavoidable? It's not that one is forced to use some tech... Even though the hyped crowd chants the names so loudly. Peer pressure. Consultant-hiring-pressure, for example: Are you full-stack? "Full stack", now there's a phrase... (EDIT: I honestly do feel that it's a sort of an attack by the sheer meta on the hiring side of the equation on the meta of the supply side of the equation. I don't imagine recruiters are doing much of this consciously, but it's definitely happening more and more...)
  - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
    "Yeah, he's a few PDF's shy of a full stack, I tell ya!" side story: Yeah, I went through 3 stages of hiring with $company. Interviews went great, and then I hear back that I didn't show up to the 3rd (much to my surprise). When the HR person checked back in, they said it was an error and instead they were no longer interested in me because I lacked Kubernetes experience specifically. And my resume includes Openstack and Apache Mesos. Not Kuber. But they dragged me around. Still pisses me off that they couldn't read my resume. Then again, their interview process was... shall we say, "interesting".
    - hodl 9y ago
      Thats why one must lie in their cv
      - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
        Perhaps. But I think it's better, that if they're willing to play those kinds of games that I wouldn't want to work for them anyways. All tech companies run their own NIH stack in one way or another. If they aren't willing to admit that to themselves, there's not much I can do. It costs time to train to get new people up to speed... and given what kind of arduous journey learning OpenStack is, I figured they would have understood and went "Well you dont know K8N, but you're trainable in this stack.."
    - 9y ago

hueving 9y ago

The important distinction here is the pace. I can use a Ubuntu server LTS version and not have to stay on top of weekly development release announcements from upstream. With k8s lacking LTS, it forces you to drink from the firehose.

emmelaich 9y ago
In a sense LTS is provided by vendors such as Gravitational and Red Hat. They introduce hysteresis and smooth out the bumps on the upgrade cycle.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

drdaeman 9y ago

> It can be frustrating, but it’s also unavoidable. Why unavoidable? It's not that one is forced to use some tech... Even though the hyped crowd chants the names so loudly. A lot of things that complex technology offers are not really needed (not to mention one has to constantly fight with that new complex technology when it doesn't yet do something). And complex tech can be frequently replaced with a small set of tiny scripts and small and simple standalone services. Domain and deployment-specific scripts and services that are unique, sure. But still easy to grasp mentally (and much smaller than any mature project's codebase).

lomnakkus 9y ago
(I haven't read the rest of your post, but I think I can still answer this little snippet...) > Why unavoidable? It's not that one is forced to use some tech... Even though the hyped crowd chants the names so loudly. Peer pressure. Consultant-hiring-pressure, for example: Are you full-stack? "Full stack", now there's a phrase... (EDIT: I honestly do feel that it's a sort of an attack by the sheer meta on the hiring side of the equation on the meta of the supply side of the equation. I don't imagine recruiters are doing much of this consciously, but it's definitely happening more and more...)
- crankylinuxuser 9y ago
  "Yeah, he's a few PDF's shy of a full stack, I tell ya!" side story: Yeah, I went through 3 stages of hiring with $company. Interviews went great, and then I hear back that I didn't show up to the 3rd (much to my surprise). When the HR person checked back in, they said it was an error and instead they were no longer interested in me because I lacked Kubernetes experience specifically. And my resume includes Openstack and Apache Mesos. Not Kuber. But they dragged me around. Still pisses me off that they couldn't read my resume. Then again, their interview process was... shall we say, "interesting".
  - hodl 9y ago
    Thats why one must lie in their cv
    - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
      Perhaps. But I think it's better, that if they're willing to play those kinds of games that I wouldn't want to work for them anyways. All tech companies run their own NIH stack in one way or another. If they aren't willing to admit that to themselves, there's not much I can do. It costs time to train to get new people up to speed... and given what kind of arduous journey learning OpenStack is, I figured they would have understood and went "Well you dont know K8N, but you're trainable in this stack.."
  - 9y ago