4 ms·

The price for this should be massive. Doing this once or twice corrupts the justice system and destroys public trust in police. This invites gangs to become the

The price for this should be massive. Doing this once or twice corrupts the justice system and destroys public trust in police. This invites gangs to become the law and order. Look how that’s worked out in Chicago.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
guildwriter 9y ago
What goes on in Chicago and its gangs goes far beyond the police and the indiscretions that go on there. Case in point: http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/October-2016/Chicago-Gangs/ http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/October-2016/Chic... Drill rap, the music of Chicago's gangs, is ultra violent and serves as a method of calling out other crews and taunting them into a response. Thanks to Youtube, Soundcloud, and social media the spread of this music is now easier than ever. The threats that come from this music are often followed up on. Why do they do it? As one rapper says: “If I wasn’t doing this, would you even be down here in the low incomes? Would you even care that I exist?” “You know, white people, Mexicans, bitches, those people don’t live the life, but they love hearing about it. People want the Chiraq stuff. They want a superthug ghetto man, and I’m giving that to them. I’m just playing my role.”
- Clubber 9y ago
  Is that "Whataboutism?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
  - guildwriter 9y ago
    Er no. It's not. I'm not saying police conduct in Chicago isn't an issue. I'm saying that the issues of inner city Chicago are much larger than just police conduct. To properly understand the issue you need to consider all the angles.
    - Clubber 9y ago
      Yes, but Chicago seems to be a fairly unique place. Also, most of the police shooting incidents don't come out of Chicago. What are you trying to say by pointing out that gang violence is bad in Chicago?
      - davrosthedalek 9y ago
        The post guildwriter answered to specifically called out Chicago.
        Clubber 9y ago
        Ah, sorry I missed that.
      - guildwriter 9y ago
        The point that I'm making isn't that gang violence is bad in Chicago. I'm trying inform others why and what drives a significant portion of gang violence in Chicago and show it from the perspective of the people who drive that violence and what they're about. The parent poster was talking about how gangs become the law and order because of the lack of trust in police. I'm saying the issue is wider and deeper than that. If you read the article, it becomes clear that one of the large driving factors for these rappers is the notoriety and fame they get from doing this is oftentimes the only way they can feel significant. It's a way for them to get money, sex, notoriety. Maybe even a record deal so they can get the hell out of the place they are in. What kind of chances and opportunities does an inner city youth really have? This notoriety can twist back in its own ways too: "The guy having the hardest time was Blaze. He seemed to be battling depression. At one point, after a shooting on a corner, he said to me, “Man, I’m so sick of this. I feel like a prisoner in my own neighborhood. I can’t go anywhere. I can’t go to my job because I don’t know if the opps will be there to come after me.” He was wallowing in how badly he wanted to be done with the gang life. He told me he wanted to move to California, but his reality felt inescapable to him. He started using PCP at an alarming rate. It was his way of coping. He became difficult to be around. He would stutter and trip over his words. His complexion got bad. His hygiene, too." It's one hell of a life and not one that I could begin to imagine.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
Yes. I increasingly believe there are kinds of anti-system crimes which should be punished with highest sentences. I'm thinking of crimes that have disproportionate, negative impact on stability and security of society. Like this. Or fucking with vaccinations, like CIA people did. (Incidentally, I also believe that the guy responsible for fake bomb detectors (from the other thread on the frontpage today) should get at minimum a murder-level sentence, for willfully putting lives of lots of people in danger.)
- icc97 9y ago
  Perhaps I'm taking what you say too literally, but you couldn't equate it with murder. It would be mass attempted manslaughter. So it would have to be at that level. That's not to say we shouldn't treat it as seriously just that it's a different intent.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Yeah, I meant the less literate version. It's obviously not murder, but I believe it should be treated at least as seriously.
    - Fnoord 9y ago
      Murder? Quite frankly, that's either akin to terrorism or it is terrorism. It destabilises entire regions of harmless civilians. The CIA did this as well in Central and South America in the previous century. They got away with it as well, of course. The series Narcos and movies American Made and Che Part One and Che Part Two are albeit partly about these subjects. Not to mention more recently the collateral murder video. I'm not entirely sure why? I guess if you got the military and economic high ground you get away with doing things like that?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

guildwriter 9y ago

What goes on in Chicago and its gangs goes far beyond the police and the indiscretions that go on there. Case in point: http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/October-2016/Chicago-Gangs/ http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/October-2016/Chic... Drill rap, the music of Chicago's gangs, is ultra violent and serves as a method of calling out other crews and taunting them into a response. Thanks to Youtube, Soundcloud, and social media the spread of this music is now easier than ever. The threats that come from this music are often followed up on. Why do they do it? As one rapper says: “If I wasn’t doing this, would you even be down here in the low incomes? Would you even care that I exist?” “You know, white people, Mexicans, bitches, those people don’t live the life, but they love hearing about it. People want the Chiraq stuff. They want a superthug ghetto man, and I’m giving that to them. I’m just playing my role.”

Clubber 9y ago
Is that "Whataboutism?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- guildwriter 9y ago
  Er no. It's not. I'm not saying police conduct in Chicago isn't an issue. I'm saying that the issues of inner city Chicago are much larger than just police conduct. To properly understand the issue you need to consider all the angles.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Yes, but Chicago seems to be a fairly unique place. Also, most of the police shooting incidents don't come out of Chicago. What are you trying to say by pointing out that gang violence is bad in Chicago?
    - davrosthedalek 9y ago
      The post guildwriter answered to specifically called out Chicago.
      - Clubber 9y ago
        Ah, sorry I missed that.
    - guildwriter 9y ago
      The point that I'm making isn't that gang violence is bad in Chicago. I'm trying inform others why and what drives a significant portion of gang violence in Chicago and show it from the perspective of the people who drive that violence and what they're about. The parent poster was talking about how gangs become the law and order because of the lack of trust in police. I'm saying the issue is wider and deeper than that. If you read the article, it becomes clear that one of the large driving factors for these rappers is the notoriety and fame they get from doing this is oftentimes the only way they can feel significant. It's a way for them to get money, sex, notoriety. Maybe even a record deal so they can get the hell out of the place they are in. What kind of chances and opportunities does an inner city youth really have? This notoriety can twist back in its own ways too: "The guy having the hardest time was Blaze. He seemed to be battling depression. At one point, after a shooting on a corner, he said to me, “Man, I’m so sick of this. I feel like a prisoner in my own neighborhood. I can’t go anywhere. I can’t go to my job because I don’t know if the opps will be there to come after me.” He was wallowing in how badly he wanted to be done with the gang life. He told me he wanted to move to California, but his reality felt inescapable to him. He started using PCP at an alarming rate. It was his way of coping. He became difficult to be around. He would stutter and trip over his words. His complexion got bad. His hygiene, too." It's one hell of a life and not one that I could begin to imagine.

TeMPOraL 9y ago

Yes. I increasingly believe there are kinds of anti-system crimes which should be punished with highest sentences. I'm thinking of crimes that have disproportionate, negative impact on stability and security of society. Like this. Or fucking with vaccinations, like CIA people did. (Incidentally, I also believe that the guy responsible for fake bomb detectors (from the other thread on the frontpage today) should get at minimum a murder-level sentence, for willfully putting lives of lots of people in danger.)

icc97 9y ago
Perhaps I'm taking what you say too literally, but you couldn't equate it with murder. It would be mass attempted manslaughter. So it would have to be at that level. That's not to say we shouldn't treat it as seriously just that it's a different intent.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Yeah, I meant the less literate version. It's obviously not murder, but I believe it should be treated at least as seriously.
  - Fnoord 9y ago
    Murder? Quite frankly, that's either akin to terrorism or it is terrorism. It destabilises entire regions of harmless civilians. The CIA did this as well in Central and South America in the previous century. They got away with it as well, of course. The series Narcos and movies American Made and Che Part One and Che Part Two are albeit partly about these subjects. Not to mention more recently the collateral murder video. I'm not entirely sure why? I guess if you got the military and economic high ground you get away with doing things like that?