3 ms·

Paypal is in this weird place where the whole set of reasons why it's so successfull with buyers is exactly why it is hated by sellers. As a buyer, I will defi

by nolok 9y ago

Paypal is in this weird place where the whole set of reasons why it's so successfull with buyers is exactly why it is hated by sellers. As a buyer, I will definitely pick it over any other option, and will pick a seller offering it over one that doesn't, even if the price is slighly higher. That's in fact pretty much the only reason I grown to use Agoda over Booking 99% of the time, and why I now use mostly Qatar Airways for my Europe <-> Asia travel. It's safer (I don't give my CC to anyone else, they can't lose it nor give it so whoever, and they have very good buyer protection procedures in place), and it's more practical (don't need to find my CC and fill the numbers, don't need to ensure it won't hit my CC monthly spend limit as it use "prelèvement" by default [charge me from my bank account directly, bypassing my CC]). As a seller I hate it, integration is terrible and fees are terrible. But anyone who has them and tries to remove them knows it translates to lost business. On a websites once we simply moved paypal from the default to one of the side option you could pick and it lead to significant lost sales in A/B testing.

chatmasta 9y ago
This is a good point. But it seems like the advantages of PayPal from a buyer perspective are derived from a subset of its features, rather than the core of the product itself. It is possible to create a business that masks your credit card, for example, without also creating a de-facto bank and merchant processor. See Privacy.com for an example.
- nolok 9y ago
  Yeah until you get to the "show the physical credit card used" fraud protection that is now common, "I used paypal" works but a "fake card" that the merchant didn't know about ? Good luck missing your plane if you don't have agree to let them take a card print before boarding. I mean, I agree overall, but I also like the fact that Paypal is registered as bank in the EU (luxembourg) and has to follow all corresponding legislation. (might be different in the US, where depending on the state it's either registered a bank or a much less refulated "payment processor")
  - chatmasta 9y ago
    It’s still a “real card.” The name and billing address are the same; it’s just the number that changes. AFAIK (not affiliated) Privacy.com integrates with MasterCard in the same way as prepaid gift cards or employee expense account credit cards do. Regarding presenting your “real card,” doesn’t using PayPal cause the same problem? Paying for airline tickets is clearly a special case. Also, are you sure you even need to check in with the same card you paid with? Usually those systems that ask you to “swipe your payment method” are only reading your name from the card, and combining it with a confirmation number to look up your reservation. I know for a fact this is how trains in the UK do it, because I can buy a ticket with PayPal, and then use any credit card with my name on it to collect the ticket from the machine.
    - nolok 9y ago
      I should point out again that I'm Europe (France) based, so this might be different than the US. Note that when I say swipe the card, I mean putting the card and typing your 4 digit pin. > Regarding presenting your “real card,” doesn’t using PayPal cause the same problem? No because when a marchant offer paypal, they know it, and they know you paid that way in advance. There is a very big difference between "you paid with a system that doesn't have a physical card, you knew it, we knew it, and we specifically allowed you to do it", and "you used CC payment but you don't have the corresponding physical card, we didn't know or approve this, and your explanation is that you use some sort of service online that hides the real card". Considering this is done to prevent fraud prevention, I'm sure you can see why this is very different. > Also, are you sure you even need to check in with the same card you paid with? Usually those systems that ask you to “swipe your payment method” are only reading your name from the card, and combining it with a confirmation number to look up your reservation. Hotels, airlines and others are using it as a fraud prevention and they explicitely require the card, of a proper copy of it to be present. They often explicitely state it on the checkout page, and on the printed receipt. The one time I had to go around this, Emirates phone support asked me to have a printed copy of the card AND a printed copy of the national id card of the card owner at check-in. With that said, they didn't actually check any of it, and this was before 3D secure (Emirates current official policy is that you don't need those documents if paid with 3d secure). But still, I would rather be safe than being blocked at the airport.

by nolok 9y ago

chatmasta 9y ago

This is a good point. But it seems like the advantages of PayPal from a buyer perspective are derived from a subset of its features, rather than the core of the product itself. It is possible to create a business that masks your credit card, for example, without also creating a de-facto bank and merchant processor. See Privacy.com for an example.

nolok 9y ago
Yeah until you get to the "show the physical credit card used" fraud protection that is now common, "I used paypal" works but a "fake card" that the merchant didn't know about ? Good luck missing your plane if you don't have agree to let them take a card print before boarding. I mean, I agree overall, but I also like the fact that Paypal is registered as bank in the EU (luxembourg) and has to follow all corresponding legislation. (might be different in the US, where depending on the state it's either registered a bank or a much less refulated "payment processor")
- chatmasta 9y ago
  It’s still a “real card.” The name and billing address are the same; it’s just the number that changes. AFAIK (not affiliated) Privacy.com integrates with MasterCard in the same way as prepaid gift cards or employee expense account credit cards do. Regarding presenting your “real card,” doesn’t using PayPal cause the same problem? Paying for airline tickets is clearly a special case. Also, are you sure you even need to check in with the same card you paid with? Usually those systems that ask you to “swipe your payment method” are only reading your name from the card, and combining it with a confirmation number to look up your reservation. I know for a fact this is how trains in the UK do it, because I can buy a ticket with PayPal, and then use any credit card with my name on it to collect the ticket from the machine.
  - nolok 9y ago
    I should point out again that I'm Europe (France) based, so this might be different than the US. Note that when I say swipe the card, I mean putting the card and typing your 4 digit pin. > Regarding presenting your “real card,” doesn’t using PayPal cause the same problem? No because when a marchant offer paypal, they know it, and they know you paid that way in advance. There is a very big difference between "you paid with a system that doesn't have a physical card, you knew it, we knew it, and we specifically allowed you to do it", and "you used CC payment but you don't have the corresponding physical card, we didn't know or approve this, and your explanation is that you use some sort of service online that hides the real card". Considering this is done to prevent fraud prevention, I'm sure you can see why this is very different. > Also, are you sure you even need to check in with the same card you paid with? Usually those systems that ask you to “swipe your payment method” are only reading your name from the card, and combining it with a confirmation number to look up your reservation. Hotels, airlines and others are using it as a fraud prevention and they explicitely require the card, of a proper copy of it to be present. They often explicitely state it on the checkout page, and on the printed receipt. The one time I had to go around this, Emirates phone support asked me to have a printed copy of the card AND a printed copy of the national id card of the card owner at check-in. With that said, they didn't actually check any of it, and this was before 3D secure (Emirates current official policy is that you don't need those documents if paid with 3d secure). But still, I would rather be safe than being blocked at the airport.