10 ms·

TDLib – Build Your Own Telegram Client

205 points by MikusR 9y ago

rplnt 9y ago
> P.S. Today, we're also introducing Telegram X for Android, a new official app. What is wrong with the current app? Or was that not official? I find it better than the Facebook Messenger (light or not) and it's definitely much better than the Hangouts app from Google.
- MildlySerious 9y ago
  In the linked article in the quote it sounds like it's basically the same concept as Firefox Nightly. New and experimental features that may or may not make it into the other app. It's not meant to replace the old app right now, but it might do so in the future.
- rmuratov 9y ago
  As they state that's because of lack of innovations among competitors. So they now compete internally.
- lloeki 9y ago
  They have had two apps (Telegram vs Telegram Desktop) on macOS too for a while. IIRC one is Electron-ish-based and the other is native Cocoa. The first one got features slightly faster but lacked Secret Chats IIRC.
  - rplnt 9y ago
    I was actually positively surprised to see the Telegram application is qt based. Not sure which one is it of the two you mention, it's just called "Telegram", and is same on both Windows and OSX. Explains why it doesn't take a minute to start and doesn't need a gigabyte of memory.
    - aneutron 9y ago
      Also, I was very surprised to see that it was really QT based in the sense that there was no glue to an attached Chromium or something, just pure QT in C++. The effort that went into that thing is amazing. It's fast on my 5 years old Pentium.
      - jamesb93 9y ago
        Which one should I be using? MacOS specific one feels polished whereas the Telegram for Desktop one doesn't have this strange issue where media sometimes never sends.
        Aloha 9y ago
        I prefer the macOS native client.
- MikusR 9y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16280360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16280360
- igloofoo 9y ago
  There is ongoing litigation with regards to the ownership of original Telegram client (issued under "Telegram LLC" based in Russia). Telegram X is released under "Telgram Messenger LLP" which is based in London and seemingly wholly owned by Durov. See my root comment for more details
Shourai 9y ago
The iOS version of Telegram and Telegram X are currently not available in the Appstore. It should be resolved soon: https://twitter.com/durov/status/958990254396059648 https://twitter.com/durov/status/958990254396059648
- cabaalis 9y ago
  There should be a notification "your app is about to be removed, please contact us to solve the issue." (I'm assuming there wasn't because of other horror stories I've read.) If my business's service was suddenly down for 2-3 days due to some externality I couldn't immediately correct, it would be a death knell.
- sschueller 9y ago
  This is such bullshit, I would like see apple treat whatsapp like this.
chrisper 9y ago
Title is misleading, I think. You can only build your own client.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
lozenge 9y ago
Telegram has a poor security record, with homegrown encryption algorithms and no end to end encryption by default.
- lloeki 9y ago
  While I am wary of "build-your-own-crypto", saying it has a poor security record is, to my knowledge so far, incorrect. I have yet to see satisfactory cryptanalysis that shows a weakness (theoretical or real) in the protocol. If anything, it seems to withstand scrutiny so far. Even the dedicated security.se.com question[0] seems like it wraps itself in tautologies. Until then, throwing the "homegrown encryption" argument to argue for Telegram's weakness is hand-waving and a straw man. Telegram's security is sufficient for the threat model I have to face against now and in the future. [0]: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegram-secure https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegr...
  - saurik 9y ago
    FWIW, four years ago, the HN zeitgeist considered the cryptography blunders made by Telegram, when conbined with their hubris over how their protocol was clearly perfect, a death knell for the company from which they would never recover. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6948742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6948742
    - morganvachon 9y ago
      Indeed, I've been attacked and modded to oblivion on here for mentioning that I use Telegram, and the scope wasn't even security related, just an alternative to email for sending non-sensitive photos. I've found Telegram to be more than good enough for day to day communications where I would previously have used email or SMS/MMS.
      - andrepd 9y ago
        So is Signal and at least that is secure.
orbifold 9y ago
I like how they do very good engineering (just straight C++, Swift, with little to no external dependencies) with a very small team of apparently very talented people. Most of their products are typically owned by one or two people. It's also pretty smart of them to make all of the clients available as open source and keep the server implementations private. This way they don't have to license QT for example.
- eitland 9y ago
  QT was very liberally licensed for a while. Are they back to copyleft or something now?
  - Aissen 9y ago
    It started moving from LGPLv2.1 to LGPLv3 in Qt 5.4 with new features, and is now the norm since Qt 5.7 (latest in 5.10): http://blog.qt.io/blog/2014/08/20/adding-lgpl-v3-to-qt/ http://blog.qt.io/blog/2014/08/20/adding-lgpl-v3-to-qt/ https://www1.qt.io/faq/#_Toc_1_2 https://www1.qt.io/faq/#_Toc_1_2
- veeti 9y ago
  Behold, 12283 lines of very good engineering: https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram/blob/e9e40cb13ea942b148b259c083fb3364a0cd90ea/TMessagesProj/src/main/java/org/telegram/ui/ChatActivity.java https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram/blob/e9e40cb13ea942b148b25...
  - parmesan 9y ago
    Takes a great engineer to make that work as well as it does..
  - orbifold 9y ago
    Well the c++ code is pretty good... In any case it works much better than the signal app on android.
    - 9y ago
kemonocode 9y ago
Unless they release the server code, no, you can't build your own "Telegram" yet. The original article's title was misleading, thankfully the HN submission title was amended to correct it. Still useful of course for anyone creating third-party clients, but an entirely different matter.
- marknadal 9y ago
  Aye aye! Both Telegram and Signal scare me. We're building an MIT/ZLIB/Apache2 Open Source End-to-End Encrypted alternative that is a fully P2P decentralized app (dApp), see: https://hackernoon.com/so-you-want-to-build-a-p2p-twitter-with-e2e-encryption-f90505b2ff8 https://hackernoon.com/so-you-want-to-build-a-p2p-twitter-wi... ! Currently it supports signed/verified messages, haven't added cyphered/private messages yet to the API, but it is available in the SEA (Security, Encryption, Authorization) utility library underneath - but that should be coming soon, and of course love any contributions! Also, the "server" has no special application logic on it, it is just another peer in the network that can help with WebRTC signaling or being a websocket relay. It cannot middleman the data, because every message is signed via the "client" (technically there are no server/clients, everybody is just a peer) using latest native Web Crypto API! Here is a demo of an example social network app that is syncing character-by-character with cryptographically verifiable sources across a test network of real world devices: https://youtu.be/C3akdQJs55E https://youtu.be/C3akdQJs55E Again, all truly Open Source (ie, MIT/ZLIB/Apache2)!
  - eitland 9y ago
    Cool! > So You Want to Build a P2P Twitter with E2E Encryption? Saw this and immediately wondered: is this just twitterish features (primarily broadcast) or are there plans for private and group chats?
  - hjek 9y ago
    Tox is also worth checking out. Decentralized, supports video calls, and you're automagically given an ID without having to provide any personal data. https://tox.chat https://tox.chat
  - 9y ago
dingo_bat 9y ago
Telegram is such an awesome software, I feel it's such a shame it's not more popular.
igloofoo 9y ago
There may be political motive to this. Why is Telegram X issued by "Telegram Messenger LLP" while the original Telegram is issued by "Telegram LLC"? Telegram LLC, which issues the original Telegram app on the App Store has been undergoing litigation with regards to its ownership. It is based out of Russia and a company called UCP with Krelim ties who 'bought' VKontakte has been suing Durov for full Telegram ownership pursuant to VKontakte 'purchase'. Telegram Messenger LLP however is based in London and seemingly wholly owned by Durov crew. In 2014, Telegram Messenger LLP launched Telegram HD, a separate app from Telegram-LLC-issued-Telegram. Now it is launching Telegram X , another separate app (which was until very recently Challegram, an open source Telegram client, winner of Telegram contest, and purchased by Durov) . Draw your own conclusions. EDITED for clarity and details https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/the-telegram-lawsuits-explained-pavel-durov-58989 https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/the-telegram-lawsuits-ex... http://www.ewdn.com/2014/07/29/pavel-durov-has-cloned-telegram/ http://www.ewdn.com/2014/07/29/pavel-durov-has-cloned-telegr... https://rusletter.com/articles/ucp_requires_to_recognize_telegram_as_the_property_of_vkontakte https://rusletter.com/articles/ucp_requires_to_recognize_tel... http://www.frandroid.com/android/applications/securite-applications/484643_telegram-fait-lacquisition-de-challegram-et-le-renomme-en-telegram-x http://www.frandroid.com/android/applications/securite-appli...
- drdaeman 9y ago
  > Challegram, an open source Telegram client Is this true? I can't find the source anywhere. Not even a dated one, if they had re-licensed it.

205 points by MikusR 9y ago

> P.S. Today, we're also introducing Telegram X for Android, a new official app. What is wrong with the current app? Or was that not official? I find it better than the Facebook Messenger (light or not) and it's definitely much better than the Hangouts app from Google.

MildlySerious 9y ago
In the linked article in the quote it sounds like it's basically the same concept as Firefox Nightly. New and experimental features that may or may not make it into the other app. It's not meant to replace the old app right now, but it might do so in the future.
rmuratov 9y ago
As they state that's because of lack of innovations among competitors. So they now compete internally.
lloeki 9y ago
They have had two apps (Telegram vs Telegram Desktop) on macOS too for a while. IIRC one is Electron-ish-based and the other is native Cocoa. The first one got features slightly faster but lacked Secret Chats IIRC.
- rplnt 9y ago
  I was actually positively surprised to see the Telegram application is qt based. Not sure which one is it of the two you mention, it's just called "Telegram", and is same on both Windows and OSX. Explains why it doesn't take a minute to start and doesn't need a gigabyte of memory.
  - aneutron 9y ago
    Also, I was very surprised to see that it was really QT based in the sense that there was no glue to an attached Chromium or something, just pure QT in C++. The effort that went into that thing is amazing. It's fast on my 5 years old Pentium.
    - jamesb93 9y ago
      Which one should I be using? MacOS specific one feels polished whereas the Telegram for Desktop one doesn't have this strange issue where media sometimes never sends.
      - Aloha 9y ago
        I prefer the macOS native client.
MikusR 9y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16280360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16280360
igloofoo 9y ago
There is ongoing litigation with regards to the ownership of original Telegram client (issued under "Telegram LLC" based in Russia). Telegram X is released under "Telgram Messenger LLP" which is based in London and seemingly wholly owned by Durov. See my root comment for more details

Shourai 9y ago

The iOS version of Telegram and Telegram X are currently not available in the Appstore. It should be resolved soon: https://twitter.com/durov/status/958990254396059648 https://twitter.com/durov/status/958990254396059648

cabaalis 9y ago
There should be a notification "your app is about to be removed, please contact us to solve the issue." (I'm assuming there wasn't because of other horror stories I've read.) If my business's service was suddenly down for 2-3 days due to some externality I couldn't immediately correct, it would be a death knell.
sschueller 9y ago
This is such bullshit, I would like see apple treat whatsapp like this.

chrisper 9y ago

Title is misleading, I think. You can only build your own client.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

lozenge 9y ago

Telegram has a poor security record, with homegrown encryption algorithms and no end to end encryption by default.

lloeki 9y ago
While I am wary of "build-your-own-crypto", saying it has a poor security record is, to my knowledge so far, incorrect. I have yet to see satisfactory cryptanalysis that shows a weakness (theoretical or real) in the protocol. If anything, it seems to withstand scrutiny so far. Even the dedicated security.se.com question[0] seems like it wraps itself in tautologies. Until then, throwing the "homegrown encryption" argument to argue for Telegram's weakness is hand-waving and a straw man. Telegram's security is sufficient for the threat model I have to face against now and in the future. [0]: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegram-secure https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegr...
- saurik 9y ago
  FWIW, four years ago, the HN zeitgeist considered the cryptography blunders made by Telegram, when conbined with their hubris over how their protocol was clearly perfect, a death knell for the company from which they would never recover. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6948742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6948742
  - morganvachon 9y ago
    Indeed, I've been attacked and modded to oblivion on here for mentioning that I use Telegram, and the scope wasn't even security related, just an alternative to email for sending non-sensitive photos. I've found Telegram to be more than good enough for day to day communications where I would previously have used email or SMS/MMS.
    - andrepd 9y ago
      So is Signal and at least that is secure.

orbifold 9y ago

I like how they do very good engineering (just straight C++, Swift, with little to no external dependencies) with a very small team of apparently very talented people. Most of their products are typically owned by one or two people. It's also pretty smart of them to make all of the clients available as open source and keep the server implementations private. This way they don't have to license QT for example.

eitland 9y ago
QT was very liberally licensed for a while. Are they back to copyleft or something now?
- Aissen 9y ago
  It started moving from LGPLv2.1 to LGPLv3 in Qt 5.4 with new features, and is now the norm since Qt 5.7 (latest in 5.10): http://blog.qt.io/blog/2014/08/20/adding-lgpl-v3-to-qt/ http://blog.qt.io/blog/2014/08/20/adding-lgpl-v3-to-qt/ https://www1.qt.io/faq/#_Toc_1_2 https://www1.qt.io/faq/#_Toc_1_2
veeti 9y ago
Behold, 12283 lines of very good engineering: https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram/blob/e9e40cb13ea942b148b259c083fb3364a0cd90ea/TMessagesProj/src/main/java/org/telegram/ui/ChatActivity.java https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram/blob/e9e40cb13ea942b148b25...
- parmesan 9y ago
  Takes a great engineer to make that work as well as it does..
- orbifold 9y ago
  Well the c++ code is pretty good... In any case it works much better than the signal app on android.
  - 9y ago

kemonocode 9y ago

Unless they release the server code, no, you can't build your own "Telegram" yet. The original article's title was misleading, thankfully the HN submission title was amended to correct it. Still useful of course for anyone creating third-party clients, but an entirely different matter.

marknadal 9y ago
Aye aye! Both Telegram and Signal scare me. We're building an MIT/ZLIB/Apache2 Open Source End-to-End Encrypted alternative that is a fully P2P decentralized app (dApp), see: https://hackernoon.com/so-you-want-to-build-a-p2p-twitter-with-e2e-encryption-f90505b2ff8 https://hackernoon.com/so-you-want-to-build-a-p2p-twitter-wi... ! Currently it supports signed/verified messages, haven't added cyphered/private messages yet to the API, but it is available in the SEA (Security, Encryption, Authorization) utility library underneath - but that should be coming soon, and of course love any contributions! Also, the "server" has no special application logic on it, it is just another peer in the network that can help with WebRTC signaling or being a websocket relay. It cannot middleman the data, because every message is signed via the "client" (technically there are no server/clients, everybody is just a peer) using latest native Web Crypto API! Here is a demo of an example social network app that is syncing character-by-character with cryptographically verifiable sources across a test network of real world devices: https://youtu.be/C3akdQJs55E https://youtu.be/C3akdQJs55E Again, all truly Open Source (ie, MIT/ZLIB/Apache2)!
- eitland 9y ago
  Cool! > So You Want to Build a P2P Twitter with E2E Encryption? Saw this and immediately wondered: is this just twitterish features (primarily broadcast) or are there plans for private and group chats?
- hjek 9y ago
  Tox is also worth checking out. Decentralized, supports video calls, and you're automagically given an ID without having to provide any personal data. https://tox.chat https://tox.chat
- 9y ago

dingo_bat 9y ago

Telegram is such an awesome software, I feel it's such a shame it's not more popular.

igloofoo 9y ago

There may be political motive to this. Why is Telegram X issued by "Telegram Messenger LLP" while the original Telegram is issued by "Telegram LLC"? Telegram LLC, which issues the original Telegram app on the App Store has been undergoing litigation with regards to its ownership. It is based out of Russia and a company called UCP with Krelim ties who 'bought' VKontakte has been suing Durov for full Telegram ownership pursuant to VKontakte 'purchase'. Telegram Messenger LLP however is based in London and seemingly wholly owned by Durov crew. In 2014, Telegram Messenger LLP launched Telegram HD, a separate app from Telegram-LLC-issued-Telegram. Now it is launching Telegram X , another separate app (which was until very recently Challegram, an open source Telegram client, winner of Telegram contest, and purchased by Durov) . Draw your own conclusions. EDITED for clarity and details https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/the-telegram-lawsuits-explained-pavel-durov-58989 https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/the-telegram-lawsuits-ex... http://www.ewdn.com/2014/07/29/pavel-durov-has-cloned-telegram/ http://www.ewdn.com/2014/07/29/pavel-durov-has-cloned-telegr... https://rusletter.com/articles/ucp_requires_to_recognize_telegram_as_the_property_of_vkontakte https://rusletter.com/articles/ucp_requires_to_recognize_tel... http://www.frandroid.com/android/applications/securite-applications/484643_telegram-fait-lacquisition-de-challegram-et-le-renomme-en-telegram-x http://www.frandroid.com/android/applications/securite-appli...

drdaeman 9y ago
> Challegram, an open source Telegram client Is this true? I can't find the source anywhere. Not even a dated one, if they had re-licensed it.