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Opinion: Bike sharing will never be more than barely above break even. I am a big bike advocate. I have 12 bikes downstairs, I've raced, and nearly every vaca

by bbarn 9y ago

Opinion: Bike sharing will never be more than barely above break even. I am a big bike advocate. I have 12 bikes downstairs, I've raced, and nearly every vacation I've taken in the last 15 years has been bike related. I don't even mind the e-bike trend as much as some people, and I am an uber user occasionally. I still can't see this working. People like me, who absolutely love bike commuting, we can't stop our bikes from getting stolen. With our 100 dollar locks that are better security than what most people use on the front door of their homes, they still get stolen. I have hope for humanity in general, but my experience has been that people in America just don't consider a bicycle worth any more than paper and ink in the office printer. They will get treated with disregard, and even more so with an uber logo on them.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Johnny555 9y ago
I still can't see this working. People like me, who absolutely love bike commuting, we can't stop our bikes from getting stolen Isn't that what will make bike sharing popular? I own several bikes (including a somewhat expensive one), but when I want to bike downtown, I take one of the bike-share bikes from in front of the apartment complex next door. That way I don't need to worry about locking it or having it be stolen (and so far, there has always been a bike waiting for me when it was time to bike home).
spectrum1234 9y ago
I've only had $500 bikes but never had any problems with theft in DC or SF. Left it overnight in DC many times too.
cialowicz 9y ago
> Bike sharing will never be more than barely above break even. That’s much more profitable than Uber’s current business model.
skrebbel 9y ago
> I don't even mind the e-bike trend as much as some people Taking this off topic but.. what? Why would anyone "mind" e-bikes? I recognize that you and me are probably in very different filter bubbles but everyone I know is either ambivalent to them or a fan (and owner). Here in NL bike commutes certainly increased. People used to mostly commute within their city, but now that e-bikes don't suck, I know several people who do 2x 30+km commutes by bike every day without breaking a sweat (literally). And don't even get me started about enabling semi disabled people to bike places again, it's fantastic. Isn't that super neat? What am I missing?
- lmm 9y ago
  Whenever an easier way of doing something people have built their identity around comes along, people who've built their identity around the hard thing see the new thing as cheating/bad.
  - bbarn 9y ago
    I don't care about any of that. I'm fat and old now. I care about the danger of very high speed users who don't have the skill to handle their machines in close quarters with me, my wife, my kid on the bike paths.
    - lmm 9y ago
      Realistically e-bikes as they're being sold - limited to 20 - don't present any more danger of that than conventional bikes. Of course it's possible for an unskilled user to go faster than they can handle, but that's always been possible on a conventional bike too.
- frabbit 9y ago
  In the USA/UK where infrastructure is provided for bicycles it tends to be very narrow and overcrowded. Being fitter and faster allows a cyclist to somewhat escape the inconveniences of being crammed in with so many other people into a small space. E-bikes change all that. In addition it means that someone who may lack the power/stamina, and consequent experience and capability, built up over years of riding now has the power to get in your way/space. I am in favor of e-bikes, but these are definitely issues.
beambot 9y ago
People like you, who absolutely love bike commuting AND have twelve bikes... may not be their target market. Their ubiquitous bikes with virtually no locks aren't worth stealing compared to your (guessing!) $1200 commuting road bike. And operating barely above break even: Great -- That means reasonable consumer pricing! Hell, make it a public utility like libraries or the post office.
- bbarn 9y ago
  I still use the bike share here. Can't always have my carbon fiber commuter with me.
btrettel 9y ago
You make a great point with respect to an average person. But I think your experience with theft is atypical for someone as dedicated as you are. I've commuted by bike for about a decade and I've never had a bike stolen. Once I had the seat stolen off a beater I left at a train station, but that was expected. I use two locks, one a hefty cable and the other a U lock with the cable for the other wheel. My philosophy is that if I can't take the bike in, then I'll make my bike seem harder to steal than the next one. Could be luck, but so far, so good. When I lived in Baltimore I'd take my bike in every night. I was told anything out at night was liable to be stolen. Now I am in Austin and that's not necessary, though I do it anyway. During the day I lock my bike up at work and aside from the occasional piece of trash people put in my rear crate, doesn't look like anyone touches it. That was true in Baltimore too. My current commuter cost about $1100 new. I bought it used for about half that about 4 years ago. So not a cheap bike either.
- lmm 9y ago
  > When I lived in Baltimore I'd take my bike in every night. I was told anything out at night was liable to be stolen. Now I am in Austin and that's not necessary, though I do it anyway. Then you're not making a fair comparison. No-one is going to be taking these bike startup bikes in overnight. I used to lock my bike on the racks my building had, but I had two or three stolen. I bought a heavy lock and a bike with non-standard bolts on the wheels... then the handlebars and saddle were stolen off it. Now I bring my bike in to my third-floor flat every time.
  - btrettel 9y ago
    I agree. Perhaps I was unclear. My comment was mostly unsolicited bike locking advice to bbarn, not suggestions for how to operate bike share systems. Clearly you can't take in the bike share bikes overnight. Sorry to hear about your experience. I'd probably have had a similar experience in Baltimore if I didn't take my bike in overnight.

by bbarn 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Johnny555 9y ago

I still can't see this working. People like me, who absolutely love bike commuting, we can't stop our bikes from getting stolen Isn't that what will make bike sharing popular? I own several bikes (including a somewhat expensive one), but when I want to bike downtown, I take one of the bike-share bikes from in front of the apartment complex next door. That way I don't need to worry about locking it or having it be stolen (and so far, there has always been a bike waiting for me when it was time to bike home).

spectrum1234 9y ago

I've only had $500 bikes but never had any problems with theft in DC or SF. Left it overnight in DC many times too.

cialowicz 9y ago

> Bike sharing will never be more than barely above break even. That’s much more profitable than Uber’s current business model.

skrebbel 9y ago

> I don't even mind the e-bike trend as much as some people Taking this off topic but.. what? Why would anyone "mind" e-bikes? I recognize that you and me are probably in very different filter bubbles but everyone I know is either ambivalent to them or a fan (and owner). Here in NL bike commutes certainly increased. People used to mostly commute within their city, but now that e-bikes don't suck, I know several people who do 2x 30+km commutes by bike every day without breaking a sweat (literally). And don't even get me started about enabling semi disabled people to bike places again, it's fantastic. Isn't that super neat? What am I missing?

lmm 9y ago
Whenever an easier way of doing something people have built their identity around comes along, people who've built their identity around the hard thing see the new thing as cheating/bad.
- bbarn 9y ago
  I don't care about any of that. I'm fat and old now. I care about the danger of very high speed users who don't have the skill to handle their machines in close quarters with me, my wife, my kid on the bike paths.
  - lmm 9y ago
    Realistically e-bikes as they're being sold - limited to 20 - don't present any more danger of that than conventional bikes. Of course it's possible for an unskilled user to go faster than they can handle, but that's always been possible on a conventional bike too.
frabbit 9y ago
In the USA/UK where infrastructure is provided for bicycles it tends to be very narrow and overcrowded. Being fitter and faster allows a cyclist to somewhat escape the inconveniences of being crammed in with so many other people into a small space. E-bikes change all that. In addition it means that someone who may lack the power/stamina, and consequent experience and capability, built up over years of riding now has the power to get in your way/space. I am in favor of e-bikes, but these are definitely issues.

beambot 9y ago

People like you, who absolutely love bike commuting AND have twelve bikes... may not be their target market. Their ubiquitous bikes with virtually no locks aren't worth stealing compared to your (guessing!) $1200 commuting road bike. And operating barely above break even: Great -- That means reasonable consumer pricing! Hell, make it a public utility like libraries or the post office.

bbarn 9y ago
I still use the bike share here. Can't always have my carbon fiber commuter with me.

btrettel 9y ago

You make a great point with respect to an average person. But I think your experience with theft is atypical for someone as dedicated as you are. I've commuted by bike for about a decade and I've never had a bike stolen. Once I had the seat stolen off a beater I left at a train station, but that was expected. I use two locks, one a hefty cable and the other a U lock with the cable for the other wheel. My philosophy is that if I can't take the bike in, then I'll make my bike seem harder to steal than the next one. Could be luck, but so far, so good. When I lived in Baltimore I'd take my bike in every night. I was told anything out at night was liable to be stolen. Now I am in Austin and that's not necessary, though I do it anyway. During the day I lock my bike up at work and aside from the occasional piece of trash people put in my rear crate, doesn't look like anyone touches it. That was true in Baltimore too. My current commuter cost about $1100 new. I bought it used for about half that about 4 years ago. So not a cheap bike either.

lmm 9y ago
> When I lived in Baltimore I'd take my bike in every night. I was told anything out at night was liable to be stolen. Now I am in Austin and that's not necessary, though I do it anyway. Then you're not making a fair comparison. No-one is going to be taking these bike startup bikes in overnight. I used to lock my bike on the racks my building had, but I had two or three stolen. I bought a heavy lock and a bike with non-standard bolts on the wheels... then the handlebars and saddle were stolen off it. Now I bring my bike in to my third-floor flat every time.
- btrettel 9y ago
  I agree. Perhaps I was unclear. My comment was mostly unsolicited bike locking advice to bbarn, not suggestions for how to operate bike share systems. Clearly you can't take in the bike share bikes overnight. Sorry to hear about your experience. I'd probably have had a similar experience in Baltimore if I didn't take my bike in overnight.