5 ms·

The story of Rapportive (YC S10) - 'social CRM' plugin that replaces Gmail ads

64 points by waderoush 16y ago

InfinityX0 16y ago
The problem with Rapportive as a business model is that it relies entirely on Google acquiring them. They have one customer. If Google doesn't want it, it's a bomb. Despite the usefulness of the service, that's a pretty risky proposition.
snitko 16y ago
The minute I saw Rapportive I started using it. The idea and the implementation are just great. Not that it does something revolutionary at the moment, but it's simple and useful and I believe there's a potential. Great job, guys!
jgershen 16y ago
Is anyone else a fan of the reporting Wade has been doing on this batch of YC companies? I've really enjoyed the in-depth articles - a nice contrast to the typical ADD of the Internet echo chamber.
mbreese 16y ago
Is this how Rapportive works? Because the idea sounds very useful, but do you really want to build a business around altering the appearance of someone else's application? Particularly troubling is that they are removing one of the few money making parts of Gmail. If it really starts to catch on, are they in for an arms race with Google? Plus, with this focus, it appears that this company may be left with only one exit strategy: acquisition by Google. Like I said, this sounds quite useful, but I'm not sure that I'd like to get in the middle of it...
- mattmanser 16y ago
  I must admit I'm totally confused by how they think they'll monetize the business without being a simple talent acquisition without crossing the dangerous line of essentially stealing google's money. Then again, YC signed 'em up on the spot and the guy's past experience is impressive. So we're probably not seeing the whole picture here. I can only imagine the money makers come from further as yet unreleased web apps or features that integrate. Although the dark thought emerges that it'll be selling the client cleaned data that they're gathering. That would be truly low. But I'm encouraged by their privacy policy that this won't happen: http://rapportive.com/privacy http://rapportive.com/privacy
  - samstokes 16y ago
    We're going to monetise by building useful tools people want to pay for. We're not yet ready to publicly discuss exactly what those are, but selling data is definitely not it. Thanks for linking to our privacy policy. From that document (under "Sharing with third parties"): > We will never sell, rent or give away private data about you or your contacts. Our business is in making your inbox more powerful, not in selling databases.
- sprout 16y ago
  How much money does Gmail actually make? Whenever I open up Gmail, I am way too busy to be looking at ads. I'm sure there's a non-zero number of people clicking on ads, but as far as I'm concerned Google is mostly providing free IMAP service with a nice web interface and great uptime.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    I figure multiplied by a huge number of users it adds up nicely. And don't forget the spam filtering.
  - sandipagr 16y ago
    you think someone visiting Hacker News is their target market? or target market for almost 99%[1] of ads? [1] out of blue :)
  - chopsueyar 16y ago
    Not sure how accurate this is... http://seekingalpha.com/article/196953-youtube-much-more-important-than-gmail-for-google http://seekingalpha.com/article/196953-youtube-much-more-imp... "...we estimate that Gmail had revenue per 1,000 page views of 6 cents in 2005 which increased to about 30 cents in 2009."
- eitally 16y ago
  That's the whole point of Gmail's Contextual Gadgets. For example, we created a gadget that's tied to our homegrown Helpdesk system so recipients of tickets can manipulate them directly within email rather than logging into the Helpdesk app. It wouldn't surprise me if Google nudged Rapportive in the direction of contextual gadgets for this reason, but since GAPE domains already allow disabling of ads it isn't like Rapportive is causing Google any pain & suffering. On the consumer side, like others have said, it's all client side so besides having to deal with Gmail's funkalicious obfuscated js I don't risk see much risk.
jacquesm 16y ago
There's something funny about the whole rapportive story, google at some point will notice, then they have to make a decision, allow this to set precedent which will open the floodgates to similar trickery or build a 'rapportive detector' in to their system which will most likely result in stopping rapportive from working. I have all kinds of questions about this strategy. I'm sure that rapportive has thought this through, but is there any official response on this? And the other side of the ledger, what if google does decide to go after them, how will they deal with the backlash from their users (that goes for both rapportive and for google)? Plastering something across someone else's adspace seems somehow not the most fair thing to do, blocking ads is one thing, but replacing them with other content? Is that ok? Is it ok to replace the ads with other ads? Do we all agree that functionality trumps ads and therefore rapportive is in the right on this? What if the party wasn't google but a much smaller one depending on those ads for its income, would it still be ok then?
- jgershen 16y ago
  A version of Rapportive is featured (free) in the Google marketplace. See http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/ http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/. If that doesn't settle the fairness aspect for you, take a look at http://code.google.com/apis/gmail/gadgets/contextual/ http://code.google.com/apis/gmail/gadgets/contextual/ - improving Gmail is something Google is interested in. Edit: Rapportive's listing specifically can be found at http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?productListingId=4969+4713825127320766042&hp=featured http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?pro...
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    So has this strategy of ad replacement been officially blessed by Google?
  - mattmanser 16y ago
    Wrong, the apps version looks totally different. Check the screenies: http://rapportive.com/google/home http://rapportive.com/google/home Rapportive is at the bottom of the screen, not at the side replacing ads. So no blessing by Google.
dtran 16y ago
Congrats on the writeup Rahul, Sam, Martin, and team! My favorite part: "They invested over Skype, which was kind of cool, and we all got drunk that evening.”
points 16y ago
"These days, most Gmail users never even glance at the ads filling the right-hand column." What sort of idiot writes that. I mean seriously. Do people really believe that Google just serves up those millions of impressions for the hell of it with no payback? People look at them. People click them. Google makes a ton of money. Advertisers get a shedload of traffic. It's an absolute douchebag move to mess with other peoples content. Reminds me of the free wifi services that inject their own adverts at the top of every page on the internet, or rewrite affiliate links etc. I don't care if this plugin is useful or not, I don't want it to mess with the DOM.
- waderoush 16y ago
  Author of the original article here. I guess I should have said that I never glance at the Gmail ads and I have a hard time imagining why anyone would, as they are consistently irrelevant to me. As soon as I learned about a plugin that could replace the ads with something useful, I installed it. On the other point that seems to be getting commenters riled up -- "messing with other people's content" -- I think I am on Rapportive's side. I admit that I would be seriously annoyed if someone wrote a plugin that replaced my stories on Xconomy with, say, TechCrunch stories. But that's the risk of publishing on the Web, where the viewing platform is not ultimately under your control. And if people started using such plugin widely, it would be useful feedback for me -- it would mean that I should do something to make my own stories more interesting. Google should see Rapportive as a signal that something is missing in Gmail. Either they should provide more relevant ads, or they should copy (or buy) Rapportive.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    > I would be seriously annoyed if someone wrote a plugin that replaced my stories on Xconomy with, say, TechCrunch stories. But that's the risk of publishing on the Web How would you feel about someone writing a plug-in that left your content in one piece, removed the ads and used your site with all the associated expenses as a way to launch their product? And if google did decide to provide 'more relevant ads' how do you propose those will reach their viewer after rapportive has 'claimed' the space? Wouldn't it have been better to add the rapportive feature to the page somehow instead of removing a feature (ads) they deemed superfluous?
tonystubblebine 16y ago
I use etacts.com, which seems like the exact same thing. Is there a difference? I think the major benefit to me is mainly just to see the person's face. It helps humanize the person on the other end of the email, and often prompts my memory if we've met before.
- dillydally 16y ago
  eTacts us also YC. I believe the timeline went like this: 1. eTacts launched as an email reminder service 2. eTacts gets into YC 3. Rapportive launched as a personal CRM 4. Rapportive gets major traction, eTacts launches their own personal CRM 5. Rapportive gets into YC So...yes, they're virtually identical right now. eTacts also does email reminders, but Rapportive has Raplets.
  - pclark 16y ago
    I think eTacts (god that uppercase T looks hideous) always had some CRM stuff. Etacts also has tons of analytics and such, which Rapportive does not. I'm biased towards the Rapportive guys cus I know them, but I don't think its fair to say Etacts copied Rapportive much (if thats what you were saying)
abraham 16y ago
Rapportive content itself could be a type of ad. For example when reading an email from someone who has a LinkedIn account Google/Rapportive will display the connection for a small fee per impression from LinkedIn.
amirmc 16y ago
I've read through the comments here and I'm really surprised by those that bring up Gmail's 'revenue' streams. Unless someone from Gmail cares to comment on: (a) How Gmail handles their P&L (b) What the main drivers really are ... then anything you read here is speculation. If I've missed something, please do point me to it. I agree that there may be a separate argument about 'messing with people's sites' on the client side, but that really isn't new.
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  Actually, I am curious as to how many commentors are GOOG shareholders, and consider this an affront.
  - amirmc 16y ago
    If I were a shareholder I'd feel better that someone is making GOOG properties more valuable to end-users.

64 points by waderoush 16y ago

The problem with Rapportive as a business model is that it relies entirely on Google acquiring them. They have one customer. If Google doesn't want it, it's a bomb. Despite the usefulness of the service, that's a pretty risky proposition.

snitko 16y ago

The minute I saw Rapportive I started using it. The idea and the implementation are just great. Not that it does something revolutionary at the moment, but it's simple and useful and I believe there's a potential. Great job, guys!

jgershen 16y ago

Is anyone else a fan of the reporting Wade has been doing on this batch of YC companies? I've really enjoyed the in-depth articles - a nice contrast to the typical ADD of the Internet echo chamber.

mbreese 16y ago

Is this how Rapportive works? Because the idea sounds very useful, but do you really want to build a business around altering the appearance of someone else's application? Particularly troubling is that they are removing one of the few money making parts of Gmail. If it really starts to catch on, are they in for an arms race with Google? Plus, with this focus, it appears that this company may be left with only one exit strategy: acquisition by Google. Like I said, this sounds quite useful, but I'm not sure that I'd like to get in the middle of it...

mattmanser 16y ago
I must admit I'm totally confused by how they think they'll monetize the business without being a simple talent acquisition without crossing the dangerous line of essentially stealing google's money. Then again, YC signed 'em up on the spot and the guy's past experience is impressive. So we're probably not seeing the whole picture here. I can only imagine the money makers come from further as yet unreleased web apps or features that integrate. Although the dark thought emerges that it'll be selling the client cleaned data that they're gathering. That would be truly low. But I'm encouraged by their privacy policy that this won't happen: http://rapportive.com/privacy http://rapportive.com/privacy
- samstokes 16y ago
  We're going to monetise by building useful tools people want to pay for. We're not yet ready to publicly discuss exactly what those are, but selling data is definitely not it. Thanks for linking to our privacy policy. From that document (under "Sharing with third parties"): > We will never sell, rent or give away private data about you or your contacts. Our business is in making your inbox more powerful, not in selling databases.
sprout 16y ago
How much money does Gmail actually make? Whenever I open up Gmail, I am way too busy to be looking at ads. I'm sure there's a non-zero number of people clicking on ads, but as far as I'm concerned Google is mostly providing free IMAP service with a nice web interface and great uptime.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  I figure multiplied by a huge number of users it adds up nicely. And don't forget the spam filtering.
- sandipagr 16y ago
  you think someone visiting Hacker News is their target market? or target market for almost 99%[1] of ads? [1] out of blue :)
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  Not sure how accurate this is... http://seekingalpha.com/article/196953-youtube-much-more-important-than-gmail-for-google http://seekingalpha.com/article/196953-youtube-much-more-imp... "...we estimate that Gmail had revenue per 1,000 page views of 6 cents in 2005 which increased to about 30 cents in 2009."
eitally 16y ago
That's the whole point of Gmail's Contextual Gadgets. For example, we created a gadget that's tied to our homegrown Helpdesk system so recipients of tickets can manipulate them directly within email rather than logging into the Helpdesk app. It wouldn't surprise me if Google nudged Rapportive in the direction of contextual gadgets for this reason, but since GAPE domains already allow disabling of ads it isn't like Rapportive is causing Google any pain & suffering. On the consumer side, like others have said, it's all client side so besides having to deal with Gmail's funkalicious obfuscated js I don't risk see much risk.

jacquesm 16y ago

There's something funny about the whole rapportive story, google at some point will notice, then they have to make a decision, allow this to set precedent which will open the floodgates to similar trickery or build a 'rapportive detector' in to their system which will most likely result in stopping rapportive from working. I have all kinds of questions about this strategy. I'm sure that rapportive has thought this through, but is there any official response on this? And the other side of the ledger, what if google does decide to go after them, how will they deal with the backlash from their users (that goes for both rapportive and for google)? Plastering something across someone else's adspace seems somehow not the most fair thing to do, blocking ads is one thing, but replacing them with other content? Is that ok? Is it ok to replace the ads with other ads? Do we all agree that functionality trumps ads and therefore rapportive is in the right on this? What if the party wasn't google but a much smaller one depending on those ads for its income, would it still be ok then?

jgershen 16y ago
A version of Rapportive is featured (free) in the Google marketplace. See http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/ http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/. If that doesn't settle the fairness aspect for you, take a look at http://code.google.com/apis/gmail/gadgets/contextual/ http://code.google.com/apis/gmail/gadgets/contextual/ - improving Gmail is something Google is interested in. Edit: Rapportive's listing specifically can be found at http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?productListingId=4969+4713825127320766042&hp=featured http://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/viewListing?pro...
- jacquesm 16y ago
  So has this strategy of ad replacement been officially blessed by Google?
- mattmanser 16y ago
  Wrong, the apps version looks totally different. Check the screenies: http://rapportive.com/google/home http://rapportive.com/google/home Rapportive is at the bottom of the screen, not at the side replacing ads. So no blessing by Google.

dtran 16y ago

Congrats on the writeup Rahul, Sam, Martin, and team! My favorite part: "They invested over Skype, which was kind of cool, and we all got drunk that evening.”

points 16y ago

"These days, most Gmail users never even glance at the ads filling the right-hand column." What sort of idiot writes that. I mean seriously. Do people really believe that Google just serves up those millions of impressions for the hell of it with no payback? People look at them. People click them. Google makes a ton of money. Advertisers get a shedload of traffic. It's an absolute douchebag move to mess with other peoples content. Reminds me of the free wifi services that inject their own adverts at the top of every page on the internet, or rewrite affiliate links etc. I don't care if this plugin is useful or not, I don't want it to mess with the DOM.

waderoush 16y ago
Author of the original article here. I guess I should have said that I never glance at the Gmail ads and I have a hard time imagining why anyone would, as they are consistently irrelevant to me. As soon as I learned about a plugin that could replace the ads with something useful, I installed it. On the other point that seems to be getting commenters riled up -- "messing with other people's content" -- I think I am on Rapportive's side. I admit that I would be seriously annoyed if someone wrote a plugin that replaced my stories on Xconomy with, say, TechCrunch stories. But that's the risk of publishing on the Web, where the viewing platform is not ultimately under your control. And if people started using such plugin widely, it would be useful feedback for me -- it would mean that I should do something to make my own stories more interesting. Google should see Rapportive as a signal that something is missing in Gmail. Either they should provide more relevant ads, or they should copy (or buy) Rapportive.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  > I would be seriously annoyed if someone wrote a plugin that replaced my stories on Xconomy with, say, TechCrunch stories. But that's the risk of publishing on the Web How would you feel about someone writing a plug-in that left your content in one piece, removed the ads and used your site with all the associated expenses as a way to launch their product? And if google did decide to provide 'more relevant ads' how do you propose those will reach their viewer after rapportive has 'claimed' the space? Wouldn't it have been better to add the rapportive feature to the page somehow instead of removing a feature (ads) they deemed superfluous?

tonystubblebine 16y ago

I use etacts.com, which seems like the exact same thing. Is there a difference? I think the major benefit to me is mainly just to see the person's face. It helps humanize the person on the other end of the email, and often prompts my memory if we've met before.

dillydally 16y ago
eTacts us also YC. I believe the timeline went like this: 1. eTacts launched as an email reminder service 2. eTacts gets into YC 3. Rapportive launched as a personal CRM 4. Rapportive gets major traction, eTacts launches their own personal CRM 5. Rapportive gets into YC So...yes, they're virtually identical right now. eTacts also does email reminders, but Rapportive has Raplets.
- pclark 16y ago
  I think eTacts (god that uppercase T looks hideous) always had some CRM stuff. Etacts also has tons of analytics and such, which Rapportive does not. I'm biased towards the Rapportive guys cus I know them, but I don't think its fair to say Etacts copied Rapportive much (if thats what you were saying)

abraham 16y ago

Rapportive content itself could be a type of ad. For example when reading an email from someone who has a LinkedIn account Google/Rapportive will display the connection for a small fee per impression from LinkedIn.

amirmc 16y ago

I've read through the comments here and I'm really surprised by those that bring up Gmail's 'revenue' streams. Unless someone from Gmail cares to comment on: (a) How Gmail handles their P&L (b) What the main drivers really are ... then anything you read here is speculation. If I've missed something, please do point me to it. I agree that there may be a separate argument about 'messing with people's sites' on the client side, but that really isn't new.

chopsueyar 16y ago
Actually, I am curious as to how many commentors are GOOG shareholders, and consider this an affront.
- amirmc 16y ago
  If I were a shareholder I'd feel better that someone is making GOOG properties more valuable to end-users.