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How Should Atheism Be Taught?

lev99 9y ago
> Appignani contends that atheists are one of the few minority groups in the country to still be widely ostracized by society. What is a "minority group"? Drug Dealers are a minority group that are ostracized. Yes we should be very open to different beliefs and different cultures. Yes we should embrace diversity. Some politically correct terms hold almost no meaning and their ambiguity can be exploited.
- smt88 9y ago
  Atheists, unlike drug dealers, are a constitutionally-protected minority group. That's what most people mean when they use "minority" as shorthand: a minority group defined by a protected class.
  - lev99 9y ago
    Is there a list of protected classes? Seems ambiguous to me.
    - smt88 9y ago
      I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, so I'll answer as though you're sincere. Yes. Those classes are literally in the Constitution of the United States. They are: race, religion, and sex. These are the basic federal protections that apply to all states. There are statutory federal protections for people with disabilities (Americans with Disabilities Act being the most important), as well as to prevent discrimination based on age in some contexts. Some states have chosen to add additional protections, e.g. sexual orientation and sexual identity. Regardless of where the protections come from, they are spelled out in black and white in documents available for anyone to read for free.
      - tptacek 9y ago
        The protected classes you're referring to are not in fact in the Constitution; you're thinking of the Civil Rights Act, which is a federal law, but not a Constitutional amendment.
qubex 9y ago
Here in Italy, supposedly a Catholic stronghold, I have absolutely no problem and no repercussions whatsoever declaring myself an atheist. I could easily run for public office and not be penalised on account of that (not that I would expect to win). Quite honestly nobody gives a shit. And yet, in my few, brief visits to the US, I've learnt to avoid the topic or outright lie. I've noticed, according to an informal and unscientific survey, that I can declare myself to pretty much any religion (including Zoroastrianism, excepting Satanism) and get nodding approvals or at the very least tolerance. If I let slip that I'm an atheist on the other hand and I'm usually in for it.
drKarl 9y ago
"tells a compelling story about his conversion to atheism" Conversion to atheism? That sentence doesn't make any sense, atheism is not a religion. It would be more correct "deconversion from religion"
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Conversion to atheism? That sentence doesn't make any sense, Yes, it does. > atheism is not a religion. That doesn't matter, as it's clearly a belief, and the relevant sense of “conversion” is (from Google Search’s integrated dictionary) “the fact of changing one's religion or beliefs or the action of persuading someone else to change theirs”.
  - drKarl 9y ago
    > as it's clearly a belief Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief. Saying that atheism is a belief would be like saying that bald is a hair color. Also, I think that the title is loaded to convey that atheism is like another religion, which has to be taught. The idea of "teaching atheism" is silly. Just teach to reason and think for themselves, and form their own opinion based on facts rather than blindly accepting what someone told them to belief, let everyone think freely and provide the mental tools to do so instead of indoctrinating children. Education is the worse enemy of religion. Religion preys on the ignorant.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief. Even granting that, changing to atheism is a change of belief and thus comfortably fits within the definition of conversion.

> Appignani contends that atheists are one of the few minority groups in the country to still be widely ostracized by society. What is a "minority group"? Drug Dealers are a minority group that are ostracized. Yes we should be very open to different beliefs and different cultures. Yes we should embrace diversity. Some politically correct terms hold almost no meaning and their ambiguity can be exploited.

smt88 9y ago
Atheists, unlike drug dealers, are a constitutionally-protected minority group. That's what most people mean when they use "minority" as shorthand: a minority group defined by a protected class.
- lev99 9y ago
  Is there a list of protected classes? Seems ambiguous to me.
  - smt88 9y ago
    I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, so I'll answer as though you're sincere. Yes. Those classes are literally in the Constitution of the United States. They are: race, religion, and sex. These are the basic federal protections that apply to all states. There are statutory federal protections for people with disabilities (Americans with Disabilities Act being the most important), as well as to prevent discrimination based on age in some contexts. Some states have chosen to add additional protections, e.g. sexual orientation and sexual identity. Regardless of where the protections come from, they are spelled out in black and white in documents available for anyone to read for free.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      The protected classes you're referring to are not in fact in the Constitution; you're thinking of the Civil Rights Act, which is a federal law, but not a Constitutional amendment.

qubex 9y ago

Here in Italy, supposedly a Catholic stronghold, I have absolutely no problem and no repercussions whatsoever declaring myself an atheist. I could easily run for public office and not be penalised on account of that (not that I would expect to win). Quite honestly nobody gives a shit. And yet, in my few, brief visits to the US, I've learnt to avoid the topic or outright lie. I've noticed, according to an informal and unscientific survey, that I can declare myself to pretty much any religion (including Zoroastrianism, excepting Satanism) and get nodding approvals or at the very least tolerance. If I let slip that I'm an atheist on the other hand and I'm usually in for it.

drKarl 9y ago

"tells a compelling story about his conversion to atheism" Conversion to atheism? That sentence doesn't make any sense, atheism is not a religion. It would be more correct "deconversion from religion"

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Conversion to atheism? That sentence doesn't make any sense, Yes, it does. > atheism is not a religion. That doesn't matter, as it's clearly a belief, and the relevant sense of “conversion” is (from Google Search’s integrated dictionary) “the fact of changing one's religion or beliefs or the action of persuading someone else to change theirs”.
- drKarl 9y ago
  > as it's clearly a belief Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief. Saying that atheism is a belief would be like saying that bald is a hair color. Also, I think that the title is loaded to convey that atheism is like another religion, which has to be taught. The idea of "teaching atheism" is silly. Just teach to reason and think for themselves, and form their own opinion based on facts rather than blindly accepting what someone told them to belief, let everyone think freely and provide the mental tools to do so instead of indoctrinating children. Education is the worse enemy of religion. Religion preys on the ignorant.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief. Even granting that, changing to atheism is a change of belief and thus comfortably fits within the definition of conversion.