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Those barriers are certainly falling. The campaign to end the live boiling of lobsters and crabs [1] is underway due to our findings that crustaceans can feel p
by ikeyany 9y ago
Those barriers are certainly falling. The campaign to end the live boiling of lobsters and crabs [1] is underway due to our findings that crustaceans can feel pain.
[1] http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42873644 http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42873644
- kingkawn 9y agoGrimly hilarious that anyone ever thought they couldn’t
- tormeh 9y agoEvery being with a consciousness must have feelings. Otherwise the consciousness wouldn't know what to do.
- kirkules 9y agoThat doesn't mean physical pain is necessarily among the feelings felt.
- 36bydesign 9y agoIt’s damn effective, harder to believe pain is felt by most (all?) animals than that it isn’t. The default assumption should be that they feel pain, not that they don’t.
- qw 9y agoI think creatures that don't feel pain would not survive long in the wild. If they don't feel pain they would not have any reason for avoiding dangerous situations.
- ikeyany 9y agoViruses and bacteria avoid harm and death if they can help it, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can "feel pain".
- coldtea 9y agoSenses are not the same as what we call feelings. And consciousness can be very basic -- merely responding to sensory input.
- ccozan 9y agoConsciousness is on a higher level: it observes what we observe ( = sensory input, either intern/vegetative or extern). Means, body feels pain, the consciousness can tell "I fell pain" - not necessarily in words but on a similar "language".
- taneq 9y agoYou could even define feelings as data generated by, and consumed by, consciousness.
- lamename 9y agoNociception /= pain
- kingkawn 9y agoThe true magical thinking here is that there is a difference where the similarity is so obvious and the origins are the same
- paulcole 9y agoIt’s easier to get through the day if we make up lies to tell ourselves.
- samfriedman 9y agoI remember seeing on cooking shows for at least the past decade that the preferred, humane method of killing a lobster or crab is a swift knife cut through the head. I had thought that that was the generally accepted method, so I'm surprised that live boiling is still done.
- ikeyany 9y ago> the preferred, humane method of killing a lobster or crab is a swift knife cut through the head Yes, this is known to kill the crab.
- meaniehusker 9y agoeveryone calm down...nature is ruthless. here spend some time on https://www.reddit.com/r/natureismetal/ https://www.reddit.com/r/natureismetal/
- aspaceman 9y agoNaturalism is a fallacy for a reason - there's no intrinsic advantage to being more like nature. Instead let's reason about it just as we would anything else. There's also no need to tell people to calm down. The discussion in this thread appears quite calm to me.
- freeflight 9y ago> there's no intrinsic advantage to being more like nature It all depends on how you define "advantage": Being integrated into the ecosystem, instead of acting outside of it like it doesn't exist or matter at all to our survival, and thus being able to survive long-term is a rather big advantage. Otherwise, we might become victims of our own "success" [0]. Now, if you define advantage very narrowly, as in "What's in it for ME?" then you might have a point, tho it's a very shortsighted and egoistical point which leads back to [0]. [0] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-astrobiology/article/implication-of-our-technological-species-being-first-and-early/EB38BDC09C0908578184835C8B072390/core-reader https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journa...
- eivarv 9y agoI think they're referring to the "appeal to nature" [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature
- aspaceman 9y agoI was indeed referring to this logical fallacy. I don't see how treating animals well removes us from the ecosystem. We have already drastically changed the ecosystem of the Earth - might as well do some positive things for it.