12 ms·

Formula E reveals second-generation car

116 points by tankenmate 9y ago

Pfhreak 9y ago
Warning: Autoplaying ad with audio. (At least on my end.)
- sirtel 9y ago
  It's very kind of you to not have adblock installed
- ericcumbee 9y ago
  On my end at least it was a plug for something about the 24 hours of Le Mans which is far more interesting than formula e
  - astrodust 9y ago
    Hopefully one day we can see a 24-Hours with all electric vehicles and no recharges. Theoretically possible today with nuclear power, but you know, not that.
MeteorMarc 9y ago
Are these super batteries also rechargable and have good longevity?
- utellme 9y ago
  Almost nothing in autosport has good longevity.
- vvillena 9y ago
  The current cars last for one whole year. The battery has some extra capacity to avoid discharge damage during racing. Having the whole car last the whole year is not very common in racing, so they are good in this.
scrumper 9y ago
I'm interested in engineering for track marshall safety with these cars. Anyone come across any interesting articles? Certainly there were some difficulties with early F1 KERS batteries, must be far more difficult here with the energy required to power a car for an entire race. Edit: thanks for info below.
- gsnedders 9y ago
  I don't think there's anything fundamentally different to F1 when it comes to marshalling, primarily just having similar red/orange/green lights on the roll-hoop to make it clear whether there's any risk in touching the car.
- ericcumbee 9y ago
  I can't speak to f1 but in Le Mans and the wec they have had a variety of hybrid systems. There are indicator lights on the outside of the cars that show the status of the hybrid system. They also have a emergency cutoff switch that is large enough for them to push with a fiberglass pole. In some cases especially in practice if the car is badly damaged they will send one of the safety and intervention vehicles back to the pits and fetch a crew member from that car with tools to properly safe the hybrid system. I've also seen where the Marshalls will have the driver climb out of the car stand on the side pod and jump clear, then take 4 or 5 bunny hops away from the car.
  - colanderman 9y ago
    Dumb question, why must a driver hop away from a damaged vehicle?
    - sjm-lbm 9y ago
      It means the driver is never part of a conductive path between the car and the ground.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 9y ago
gsnedders 9y ago
Note one of the most farcical parts of Formula E is changing for the 2018–19 season (when the new chassis is introduced): they're getting rid of the mid-race car change, and the batteries are required to last the full race distance.
- splike 9y ago
  The most farcical part of Formula E for me will always be the Fan Boost [0]. I almost couldn't believe it when I saw it on TV for the first time. Fans vote for their favourite driver, and that driver then remotely receives a boost to their car. I thought it was a joke. [0] http://fanboost.fiaformulae.com/ http://fanboost.fiaformulae.com/
  - isfield 9y ago
    THIS I immediately stopped watching Formula E because of that. I like motor racing not popularity contests with cars. The tech involved in the cars is great though.
  - sbarre 9y ago
    Fan boost is great. Formula E is in it's infancy, and right now is still drawing in fans and support.. Now is the time for stunts like this... It won't be around forever, but for now it provides an additional measure of interaction and excitement in a sport that is already hard to get into if you're not willing to follow the non-race drama (the "circus" as they put it).
    - isfield 9y ago
      Okay fine. Just don't call it motor racing then. Given that the cars are obviously running in some artificially crippled state compared to the 'boosted' car. Call it ... Car-big-brother or something instead :p
      - ricardobeat 9y ago
        The cars’ power output is electronically limited, this limit is raised during the 5s of boost. The same thing could be done for normal F1 cars - for example, by raising the RPM limit, power output or drag reduction for a few seconds. In fact, with KERS, F1 drivers already have the same kind of boost but without the voting.
Theodores 9y ago
So now Formula E has enough juice to last a full race with no car swap in the middle. There are also efforts to bring Formula E to city centres - and the people - but will anyone be watching? I would like to see this electric car racing take a different direction - imagine if you could press a button on the dash and have your car emulate any of many open wheel single seater cars of the past. Just getting started? Try the 'Formula Challenge Japan' mode or maybe give an F2 car from the 1970's a spin. If you get really brave then you could put it into one of those Red Bull F1 car modes. You could have all the characteristics of each car ported over from a simulator/game but be out on the track. As well as this open seater 'Formula E' with a difference there could also be a normal car with things like a roof and passenger seating, this could be electric and simulate any number of cars. Porsche GT3 RS? Fine. There could be a fake manual gearbox, fake RPM redline and all of that exhaust noise nonsense also simulated. Or maybe you would like to see what it is like to go round the track in a retro Ferrari 275 with a big V12 singing away. Perhaps the next lap could be tried in Testarossa mode, with the Miami Vice Classic car simulated. Or maybe you wondered what those Group B rally cars were really like, so you could just go into 'Lancia Delta Integrale mode' and not have the 'benefit' of a tank full of gasoline underneath one's seat. Perhaps petrol could be faked too, a smell created that does not have the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons but gives the 'garage' impression. As well as being greener, such simulator-cars would also be easier and cheaper to maintain than a fleet of ICE race cars. This would make track day racing more fun and accessible.
- huntie 9y ago
  So you want an electric race car to feel like some other car? This really isn't possible at all. No matter what you do, a Testa won't handle like a Miata because you can't change weight on the fly. Really all that you could do is reduce the power of the car on the fly which doesn't give the same experience.
  - Theodores 9y ago
    Yeah, you just put bricks in the bonnet or boot. Easy.
makmanalp 9y ago
I would really like to see a formula class that has no human pilots and no one on or near the field so the cars can go as fast as they possibly can, no limitation based on human reaction speed or human safety, no arbitrary rules around tire material or suction fans under the car etc etc.
- pixelbash 9y ago
  I think that is in the works https://roborace.com/ https://roborace.com/
- tomseldon 9y ago
  I'd like to see that out of pure curiosity, but I would almost definitely struggle to get excited about it without the human element. I think most wouldn't be that interested if there wasn't an actual driver (in the car, too, not some remote thing), even if it's ultimately faster.
  - lovemenot 9y ago
    I think your post just helped me understand why I never was interested in sports. I cannot get excited watching other humans doing heroic stuff. This would not change for me if it were AI's with identifiable characteristics doing the activities (driving). With suitable marketing maybe real sportsfans could get behind (hypotheically) Team Waymo's AlphaRomeo Zero. Especially with an e-sports tie-in. Imagine racing, and thereby helping to train your (AI) hero on a simulator.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > I would almost definitely struggle to get excited about it without the human element You'd have teams in "pits" monitoring their vehicles live. Those reactions will be raw and humanistic. When the vehicle comes in for a "pit stop," the team--in addition to doing mechanical maintenance--could be allowed to tweak the code, e.g. based on strategic observations of other cars' behaviours. To keep it interesting, one could mandate--to make up for the electronics in the car--all "pit stop" labor be completely manual. (Any code changes could be taken onto the track on an unpowered drive.)
olivermarks 9y ago
EV's are amazing for drag racing (at least up to about 160mph) and hillclimb. Circuit racing has a long way to go before it is watchable IMO http://www.nedra.com http://www.nedra.com Pikes Peak hillclimb https://youtu.be/nMjsAMlXGBI https://youtu.be/nMjsAMlXGBI
ajmurmann 9y ago
Do I read this right that FIA provides the card for every team? Why does this not work like F1 where every team brings their own car?
- sitharus 9y ago
  It's a standard chassis yes, but the powertrain is made by the teams. It's to force the manufacturers to concentrate their developments on the EV powertrain (cooling, inverter, motor etc) instead of aerodynamics and suspension. The battery is also a spec part to force powertrain efficiency rather than cramming in more batteries, plus battery technology is expensive.

116 points by tankenmate 9y ago

Pfhreak 9y ago

Warning: Autoplaying ad with audio. (At least on my end.)

sirtel 9y ago
It's very kind of you to not have adblock installed
ericcumbee 9y ago
On my end at least it was a plug for something about the 24 hours of Le Mans which is far more interesting than formula e
- astrodust 9y ago
  Hopefully one day we can see a 24-Hours with all electric vehicles and no recharges. Theoretically possible today with nuclear power, but you know, not that.

MeteorMarc 9y ago

Are these super batteries also rechargable and have good longevity?

utellme 9y ago
Almost nothing in autosport has good longevity.
vvillena 9y ago
The current cars last for one whole year. The battery has some extra capacity to avoid discharge damage during racing. Having the whole car last the whole year is not very common in racing, so they are good in this.

scrumper 9y ago

I'm interested in engineering for track marshall safety with these cars. Anyone come across any interesting articles? Certainly there were some difficulties with early F1 KERS batteries, must be far more difficult here with the energy required to power a car for an entire race. Edit: thanks for info below.

gsnedders 9y ago
I don't think there's anything fundamentally different to F1 when it comes to marshalling, primarily just having similar red/orange/green lights on the roll-hoop to make it clear whether there's any risk in touching the car.
ericcumbee 9y ago
I can't speak to f1 but in Le Mans and the wec they have had a variety of hybrid systems. There are indicator lights on the outside of the cars that show the status of the hybrid system. They also have a emergency cutoff switch that is large enough for them to push with a fiberglass pole. In some cases especially in practice if the car is badly damaged they will send one of the safety and intervention vehicles back to the pits and fetch a crew member from that car with tools to properly safe the hybrid system. I've also seen where the Marshalls will have the driver climb out of the car stand on the side pod and jump clear, then take 4 or 5 bunny hops away from the car.
- colanderman 9y ago
  Dumb question, why must a driver hop away from a damaged vehicle?
  - sjm-lbm 9y ago
    It means the driver is never part of a conductive path between the car and the ground.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 9y ago

gsnedders 9y ago

Note one of the most farcical parts of Formula E is changing for the 2018–19 season (when the new chassis is introduced): they're getting rid of the mid-race car change, and the batteries are required to last the full race distance.

splike 9y ago
The most farcical part of Formula E for me will always be the Fan Boost [0]. I almost couldn't believe it when I saw it on TV for the first time. Fans vote for their favourite driver, and that driver then remotely receives a boost to their car. I thought it was a joke. [0] http://fanboost.fiaformulae.com/ http://fanboost.fiaformulae.com/
- isfield 9y ago
  THIS I immediately stopped watching Formula E because of that. I like motor racing not popularity contests with cars. The tech involved in the cars is great though.
- sbarre 9y ago
  Fan boost is great. Formula E is in it's infancy, and right now is still drawing in fans and support.. Now is the time for stunts like this... It won't be around forever, but for now it provides an additional measure of interaction and excitement in a sport that is already hard to get into if you're not willing to follow the non-race drama (the "circus" as they put it).
  - isfield 9y ago
    Okay fine. Just don't call it motor racing then. Given that the cars are obviously running in some artificially crippled state compared to the 'boosted' car. Call it ... Car-big-brother or something instead :p
    - ricardobeat 9y ago
      The cars’ power output is electronically limited, this limit is raised during the 5s of boost. The same thing could be done for normal F1 cars - for example, by raising the RPM limit, power output or drag reduction for a few seconds. In fact, with KERS, F1 drivers already have the same kind of boost but without the voting.

Theodores 9y ago

So now Formula E has enough juice to last a full race with no car swap in the middle. There are also efforts to bring Formula E to city centres - and the people - but will anyone be watching? I would like to see this electric car racing take a different direction - imagine if you could press a button on the dash and have your car emulate any of many open wheel single seater cars of the past. Just getting started? Try the 'Formula Challenge Japan' mode or maybe give an F2 car from the 1970's a spin. If you get really brave then you could put it into one of those Red Bull F1 car modes. You could have all the characteristics of each car ported over from a simulator/game but be out on the track. As well as this open seater 'Formula E' with a difference there could also be a normal car with things like a roof and passenger seating, this could be electric and simulate any number of cars. Porsche GT3 RS? Fine. There could be a fake manual gearbox, fake RPM redline and all of that exhaust noise nonsense also simulated. Or maybe you would like to see what it is like to go round the track in a retro Ferrari 275 with a big V12 singing away. Perhaps the next lap could be tried in Testarossa mode, with the Miami Vice Classic car simulated. Or maybe you wondered what those Group B rally cars were really like, so you could just go into 'Lancia Delta Integrale mode' and not have the 'benefit' of a tank full of gasoline underneath one's seat. Perhaps petrol could be faked too, a smell created that does not have the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons but gives the 'garage' impression. As well as being greener, such simulator-cars would also be easier and cheaper to maintain than a fleet of ICE race cars. This would make track day racing more fun and accessible.

huntie 9y ago
So you want an electric race car to feel like some other car? This really isn't possible at all. No matter what you do, a Testa won't handle like a Miata because you can't change weight on the fly. Really all that you could do is reduce the power of the car on the fly which doesn't give the same experience.
- Theodores 9y ago
  Yeah, you just put bricks in the bonnet or boot. Easy.

makmanalp 9y ago

I would really like to see a formula class that has no human pilots and no one on or near the field so the cars can go as fast as they possibly can, no limitation based on human reaction speed or human safety, no arbitrary rules around tire material or suction fans under the car etc etc.

pixelbash 9y ago
I think that is in the works https://roborace.com/ https://roborace.com/
tomseldon 9y ago
I'd like to see that out of pure curiosity, but I would almost definitely struggle to get excited about it without the human element. I think most wouldn't be that interested if there wasn't an actual driver (in the car, too, not some remote thing), even if it's ultimately faster.
- lovemenot 9y ago
  I think your post just helped me understand why I never was interested in sports. I cannot get excited watching other humans doing heroic stuff. This would not change for me if it were AI's with identifiable characteristics doing the activities (driving). With suitable marketing maybe real sportsfans could get behind (hypotheically) Team Waymo's AlphaRomeo Zero. Especially with an e-sports tie-in. Imagine racing, and thereby helping to train your (AI) hero on a simulator.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > I would almost definitely struggle to get excited about it without the human element You'd have teams in "pits" monitoring their vehicles live. Those reactions will be raw and humanistic. When the vehicle comes in for a "pit stop," the team--in addition to doing mechanical maintenance--could be allowed to tweak the code, e.g. based on strategic observations of other cars' behaviours. To keep it interesting, one could mandate--to make up for the electronics in the car--all "pit stop" labor be completely manual. (Any code changes could be taken onto the track on an unpowered drive.)

olivermarks 9y ago

EV's are amazing for drag racing (at least up to about 160mph) and hillclimb. Circuit racing has a long way to go before it is watchable IMO http://www.nedra.com http://www.nedra.com Pikes Peak hillclimb https://youtu.be/nMjsAMlXGBI https://youtu.be/nMjsAMlXGBI

ajmurmann 9y ago

Do I read this right that FIA provides the card for every team? Why does this not work like F1 where every team brings their own car?

sitharus 9y ago
It's a standard chassis yes, but the powertrain is made by the teams. It's to force the manufacturers to concentrate their developments on the EV powertrain (cooling, inverter, motor etc) instead of aerodynamics and suspension. The battery is also a spec part to force powertrain efficiency rather than cramming in more batteries, plus battery technology is expensive.