4 ms·

It's true that some will cheat the system, and that has a cost. But there is also a cost associated with people going hungry, or being made homeless, or even dy

by cjrp 9y ago

It's true that some will cheat the system, and that has a cost. But there is also a cost associated with people going hungry, or being made homeless, or even dying due to their circumstances.

hirundo 9y ago
While the cost to those people may be infinite, the cost to everyone else may be less than the cost of doing something effective to help them. If you reduce things to economics you may not like the answers you get. Like smoking tends to _reduce_ public health expense via premature death.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > Like smoking tends to _reduce_ public health expense via premature death. Does it? I thought it increased the costs due to lung cancer treatments.
  - hirundo 9y ago
    Certainly the direct costs are huge, probably in the tens of billions of dollars or pounds per year. But it's quite possible that the shortened lifespan saves even more money by lowering spending on the chronic diseases of late life, etc. <blockquote>However, smokers die some 10 years earlier than nonsmokers, according to the CDC, and those premature deaths provide a savings to Medicare, Social Security, private pensions and other programs. Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents.</blockquote> https://medicalxpress.com/news/2009-04-smokers-society-money.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2009-04-smokers-society-money...
    - testvox 9y ago
      Maybe you should change your earlier statement to "smoking reduces public costs" or something else a little more inclusive. While there is good evidence smoking reduces costs when savings on retirement programs are considered it's less clear that it reduces health expenditures specifically.
  - testvox 9y ago
    Most people will get cancer or some terminal illness that requires expensive treatment eventually. And if they don't then they will live long enough to require assistive living which is also very expensive. Lung cancer is particularly aggressive and trends to kill people right before retirement age so the argument has been made that smoking reduces overall costs because you don't have to spend money on as many retired people who otherwise would need assistance.

by cjrp 9y ago

It's true that some will cheat the system, and that has a cost. But there is also a cost associated with people going hungry, or being made homeless, or even dying due to their circumstances.

hirundo 9y ago

While the cost to those people may be infinite, the cost to everyone else may be less than the cost of doing something effective to help them. If you reduce things to economics you may not like the answers you get. Like smoking tends to _reduce_ public health expense via premature death.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
> Like smoking tends to _reduce_ public health expense via premature death. Does it? I thought it increased the costs due to lung cancer treatments.
- hirundo 9y ago
  Certainly the direct costs are huge, probably in the tens of billions of dollars or pounds per year. But it's quite possible that the shortened lifespan saves even more money by lowering spending on the chronic diseases of late life, etc. <blockquote>However, smokers die some 10 years earlier than nonsmokers, according to the CDC, and those premature deaths provide a savings to Medicare, Social Security, private pensions and other programs. Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents.</blockquote> https://medicalxpress.com/news/2009-04-smokers-society-money.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2009-04-smokers-society-money...
  - testvox 9y ago
    Maybe you should change your earlier statement to "smoking reduces public costs" or something else a little more inclusive. While there is good evidence smoking reduces costs when savings on retirement programs are considered it's less clear that it reduces health expenditures specifically.
- testvox 9y ago
  Most people will get cancer or some terminal illness that requires expensive treatment eventually. And if they don't then they will live long enough to require assistive living which is also very expensive. Lung cancer is particularly aggressive and trends to kill people right before retirement age so the argument has been made that smoking reduces overall costs because you don't have to spend money on as many retired people who otherwise would need assistance.