5 ms·

It's actually very easy to explain. Homeless people are attracted to places with nice year round weather. SF provides that. They are also attracted to places

It's actually very easy to explain. Homeless people are attracted to places with nice year round weather. SF provides that. They are also attracted to places where they are tolerated or accepted. The people of SF are very tolerant of the homeless. As one of the commenters here says: "I bring cash, you run out after just a block or two." Sounds like a great place to be homeless. As for root causes, homelessness is mostly caused by drug addiction and mental illness. According the the National Coalition for the Homeless: "A 2008 survey by the United States Conference of Mayors asked 25 cities for their top three causes of homelessness. Substance abuse was the single largest cause of homelessness for single adults (reported by 68% of cities). Substance abuse was also mentioned by 12% of cities as one of the top three causes of homelessness for families. According to Didenko and Pankratz (2007), two-thirds of homeless people report that drugs and/or alcohol were a major reason for their becoming homeless." As for mental illness, according to a research summary compiled by the Treatment Advocacy Center: "Approximately one-third of the total homeless population includes individuals with serious, untreated mental illnesses" More affordable housing will not offer relief to the homeless because their state is largely caused by addiction and mental illness, not by high housing prices.

mirimir 9y ago
So do you have evidence that most SF homeless are immigrants? Many people have psychological problems, and/or dependence on various psychoactive drugs. And perhaps they do correlate with homelessness. But correlation does not prove causation. Maybe it's just that homelessness makes it all worse.
- meri_dian 9y ago
  "According to Didenko and Pankratz (2007), two-thirds of homeless people report that drugs and/or alcohol were a major reason for their becoming homeless."
  - mirimir 9y ago
    Sure, but the point is that homelessness is horrible treatment for drug and/or alcohol dependence.
- racer-v 9y ago
  By the city's 2017 San Francisco Homeless Count & Survey, most either were already homeless when then arrived in the city (31%) or became homeless after being here less than 10 years (another 31%, see page 22). http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017SanFrancisco-PIT-FINAL.pdf http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017SanFranc...
  - cheriot 9y ago
    An American citizen that's liven in SF for years is not an immigrant by any reasonable definition. This is an important distinction because people that emphasize homeless as "not being from here" often use it to justify inhumane policies.
    - racer-v 9y ago
      The claim is that homeless (and borderline homeless) people are already attracted to San Francisco, and that making it more attractive isn't going to solve the problem while there are near-unlimited reserves of more homeless people in the rest of the country.
      - rcpt 9y ago
        Do you have data suggesting that SF is in fact attracting homeless more than other cities?
        racer-v 9y ago
        All cities attract homeless people to a greater or lesser extent. It's easier to blend in and live off the system's detritus in a large city than in a rural area or small town, if you don't have any friends or family willing to support you.
        cheriot 9y ago
        Let's be clear, you're arguing against data by waving your hands. Then using your "they're not from here" assertion to justify the city not dealing with the problem. Then suggesting that the Federal government should do this without talking about how that could possibly happen. What end game are you trying to get at?
habosa 9y ago
http://sfist.com/2016/02/11/71_of_sf_homeless_once_had_homes_in.php http://sfist.com/2016/02/11/71_of_sf_homeless_once_had_homes... 70%+ of homeless people in SF were previously housed in SF. Yes they are attracted to SF but it's in the same way that you and I may be attracted to the city. They came for the weather, the jobs, the culture, and they got left behind. You're right about drug abuse and mental illness, but neither of those should leave someone to a life on the streets. Treatment is the answer for people with mental health issues or addictions.
- rcpt 9y ago
  Thank you for pointing this out. It's far to common to hear that the increase in homelessness is the result of out-of-town transients invading from afar and then settling here. Here's the relevant study http://sfgov.org/lhcb/sites/default/files/2015%20San%20Francisco%20Homeless%20Count%20%20Report.pdf http://sfgov.org/lhcb/sites/default/files/2015%20San%20Franc...
- chrissnell 9y ago
  Speaking as someone with multiple addicts in his immediate family (some with 40+ year addiction histories), I promise you that treatment is rarely the "answer". Most addicts don't want to go to treatment. They want to maximize their draw from society and minimize their effort to get that draw so that they can continue to use drugs as much as possible.
  - nitrogen 9y ago
    Maybe that's the best we can accomplish -- grant them some of what they want so they are otherwise prevented from harming society and the ripple effects of a black market supply chain are eliminated.
  - tcj_phx 9y ago
    > I promise you that treatment is rarely the "answer". Most addicts don't want to go to treatment. Most addicts don't want to go to treatment because treatment doesn't work - mostly it gets people to focus on their failures and feel bad about themselves. Someone responded to my previous quip about AA's miserable success rate with... I'd say 12-step is closer to "takes credit for the ~10-15% of people who'd beat their addictions anyways". [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15024780 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15024780 (168 days ago - above quote is from the response to this comment) My girlfriend was doing fine with her addictions. The main factor was that I did not approve, and she liked me more than the drugs. She's spent the last two years getting 'treated' by the mental health professionals, who have reversed cause (self-medicating) and effect ('mental illness'). Some months ago her treatment provider did a genetic test, and decided she'd benefit from Vitamin B-9 - grains fortified with folic acid doesn't work for poor methylators. It's too bad the treatment providers don't start with healthy diets and supplements for all their patients.
aaavl2821 9y ago
It's true that mental illness and substance abuse are major drivers of homelessness, but lack of affordable housing can be the final straw for someone on the brink of homelessness I've known long term renters who've lived in the same apartment for years and been forced out by landlords trying to capitalize on rising rents. If you are getting by on low income, or have a moderate or severe but treated mental illness (even like ptsd for vets), and lose your home, that can be the start of a slippery slope that can lead to homelessness. Affordable housing would provide a safety net to catch people falling down this slope
DrScump 9y ago
Substance abuse was also mentioned by 12% of cities as one of the top three causes of homelessness That would mean that for 88% of cities, substance abuse was not in the top 3 causes mentioned.
- stonesixone 9y ago
  You left off the key part of the sentence: "for families." For single adults, substance abuse was the most oft-cited cause (68% of cities). See page 19 of: http://www.ncdsv.org/images/USCM_Hunger-homelessness-Survey-in-America's-Cities_12%202008.pdf http://www.ncdsv.org/images/USCM_Hunger-homelessness-Survey-...

mirimir 9y ago

So do you have evidence that most SF homeless are immigrants? Many people have psychological problems, and/or dependence on various psychoactive drugs. And perhaps they do correlate with homelessness. But correlation does not prove causation. Maybe it's just that homelessness makes it all worse.

meri_dian 9y ago
"According to Didenko and Pankratz (2007), two-thirds of homeless people report that drugs and/or alcohol were a major reason for their becoming homeless."
- mirimir 9y ago
  Sure, but the point is that homelessness is horrible treatment for drug and/or alcohol dependence.
racer-v 9y ago
By the city's 2017 San Francisco Homeless Count & Survey, most either were already homeless when then arrived in the city (31%) or became homeless after being here less than 10 years (another 31%, see page 22). http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017SanFrancisco-PIT-FINAL.pdf http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017SanFranc...
- cheriot 9y ago
  An American citizen that's liven in SF for years is not an immigrant by any reasonable definition. This is an important distinction because people that emphasize homeless as "not being from here" often use it to justify inhumane policies.
  - racer-v 9y ago
    The claim is that homeless (and borderline homeless) people are already attracted to San Francisco, and that making it more attractive isn't going to solve the problem while there are near-unlimited reserves of more homeless people in the rest of the country.
    - rcpt 9y ago
      Do you have data suggesting that SF is in fact attracting homeless more than other cities?
      - racer-v 9y ago
        All cities attract homeless people to a greater or lesser extent. It's easier to blend in and live off the system's detritus in a large city than in a rural area or small town, if you don't have any friends or family willing to support you.
        cheriot 9y ago
        Let's be clear, you're arguing against data by waving your hands. Then using your "they're not from here" assertion to justify the city not dealing with the problem. Then suggesting that the Federal government should do this without talking about how that could possibly happen. What end game are you trying to get at?

habosa 9y ago

http://sfist.com/2016/02/11/71_of_sf_homeless_once_had_homes_in.php http://sfist.com/2016/02/11/71_of_sf_homeless_once_had_homes... 70%+ of homeless people in SF were previously housed in SF. Yes they are attracted to SF but it's in the same way that you and I may be attracted to the city. They came for the weather, the jobs, the culture, and they got left behind. You're right about drug abuse and mental illness, but neither of those should leave someone to a life on the streets. Treatment is the answer for people with mental health issues or addictions.

rcpt 9y ago
Thank you for pointing this out. It's far to common to hear that the increase in homelessness is the result of out-of-town transients invading from afar and then settling here. Here's the relevant study http://sfgov.org/lhcb/sites/default/files/2015%20San%20Francisco%20Homeless%20Count%20%20Report.pdf http://sfgov.org/lhcb/sites/default/files/2015%20San%20Franc...
chrissnell 9y ago
Speaking as someone with multiple addicts in his immediate family (some with 40+ year addiction histories), I promise you that treatment is rarely the "answer". Most addicts don't want to go to treatment. They want to maximize their draw from society and minimize their effort to get that draw so that they can continue to use drugs as much as possible.
- nitrogen 9y ago
  Maybe that's the best we can accomplish -- grant them some of what they want so they are otherwise prevented from harming society and the ripple effects of a black market supply chain are eliminated.
- tcj_phx 9y ago
  > I promise you that treatment is rarely the "answer". Most addicts don't want to go to treatment. Most addicts don't want to go to treatment because treatment doesn't work - mostly it gets people to focus on their failures and feel bad about themselves. Someone responded to my previous quip about AA's miserable success rate with... I'd say 12-step is closer to "takes credit for the ~10-15% of people who'd beat their addictions anyways". [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15024780 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15024780 (168 days ago - above quote is from the response to this comment) My girlfriend was doing fine with her addictions. The main factor was that I did not approve, and she liked me more than the drugs. She's spent the last two years getting 'treated' by the mental health professionals, who have reversed cause (self-medicating) and effect ('mental illness'). Some months ago her treatment provider did a genetic test, and decided she'd benefit from Vitamin B-9 - grains fortified with folic acid doesn't work for poor methylators. It's too bad the treatment providers don't start with healthy diets and supplements for all their patients.

aaavl2821 9y ago

It's true that mental illness and substance abuse are major drivers of homelessness, but lack of affordable housing can be the final straw for someone on the brink of homelessness I've known long term renters who've lived in the same apartment for years and been forced out by landlords trying to capitalize on rising rents. If you are getting by on low income, or have a moderate or severe but treated mental illness (even like ptsd for vets), and lose your home, that can be the start of a slippery slope that can lead to homelessness. Affordable housing would provide a safety net to catch people falling down this slope

DrScump 9y ago

Substance abuse was also mentioned by 12% of cities as one of the top three causes of homelessness That would mean that for 88% of cities, substance abuse was not in the top 3 causes mentioned.

stonesixone 9y ago
You left off the key part of the sentence: "for families." For single adults, substance abuse was the most oft-cited cause (68% of cities). See page 19 of: http://www.ncdsv.org/images/USCM_Hunger-homelessness-Survey-in-America's-Cities_12%202008.pdf http://www.ncdsv.org/images/USCM_Hunger-homelessness-Survey-...