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There's no doubt that unions in America have had their problems. But the solution was always better (more democratic, less corrupt, etc) unions, not less union

There's no doubt that unions in America have had their problems. But the solution was always better (more democratic, less corrupt, etc) unions, not less unions or none at all.

pdonis 9y ago
I'm wondering why an alternative solution hasn't been tried: make unions into corporations, selling the service of efficiently managed labor to other corporations who want it. All of the workers could have shares in the corporation, so they would fairly share its profits. And the union/corporation could then negotiate for itself for things like health care, retirement plans, etc., without having to depend on other corporations to do it.
- rdl 9y ago
  Because all of the problems with unions come from the "closed shop" -- the right to exclude non-members from working freely for companies. No one has a problem with voluntary associations of workers (e.g. ACM or IEEE); the issue is when a group is allowed to force a business to only hire members of that organization, or to force all employees to pay dues to that organization. Your "labor contracting corporation" would just be one competitor among many. If it tried to increase the price of labor, it would be bypassed. Right-to-work solves the problems of unions. It also eliminates most of the power of unions, so it is unpopular with trade unionists. The only unions I really want to see eliminated, though, are public employee unions (prison guards, especially, but also police, fire, teachers, etc.). Those employees have other means to redress grievances. I'd also like to see AMA and ABA (which are effectively unions, but for people making far higher wages) de-fanged as well.
closeparen 9y ago
> But the solution was always better (more democratic, less corrupt, etc) unions The core of a union is having an iron grip on the privilege of working in an industry. A bad union can't be sidestepped or replaced - that's the entire point.

There's no doubt that unions in America have had their problems. But the solution was always better (more democratic, less corrupt, etc) unions, not less unions or none at all.

pdonis 9y ago

I'm wondering why an alternative solution hasn't been tried: make unions into corporations, selling the service of efficiently managed labor to other corporations who want it. All of the workers could have shares in the corporation, so they would fairly share its profits. And the union/corporation could then negotiate for itself for things like health care, retirement plans, etc., without having to depend on other corporations to do it.

rdl 9y ago
Because all of the problems with unions come from the "closed shop" -- the right to exclude non-members from working freely for companies. No one has a problem with voluntary associations of workers (e.g. ACM or IEEE); the issue is when a group is allowed to force a business to only hire members of that organization, or to force all employees to pay dues to that organization. Your "labor contracting corporation" would just be one competitor among many. If it tried to increase the price of labor, it would be bypassed. Right-to-work solves the problems of unions. It also eliminates most of the power of unions, so it is unpopular with trade unionists. The only unions I really want to see eliminated, though, are public employee unions (prison guards, especially, but also police, fire, teachers, etc.). Those employees have other means to redress grievances. I'd also like to see AMA and ABA (which are effectively unions, but for people making far higher wages) de-fanged as well.

closeparen 9y ago

> But the solution was always better (more democratic, less corrupt, etc) unions The core of a union is having an iron grip on the privilege of working in an industry. A bad union can't be sidestepped or replaced - that's the entire point.