4 ms·

> An analogy would be if you bought a Dell computer and it came loaded with "Dell Windows", which was basically just like Windows except that it had a lot of us

by neilk 16y ago

> An analogy would be if you bought a Dell computer and it came loaded with "Dell Windows", which was basically just like Windows except that it had a lot of useless Dell apps that were a pain to remove. But... that is what happens today. And at least you usually can remove that stuff easily. Or go to another, less-shady manufacturer. With the iPhone no amount of effort and expense will help, since they also control the entire competitive landscape. I'm not saying that's worse or better (if you like an Apple-managed platform, fine) but that doesn't mean that more open strategies have failed. Unless you can show that in practice, there are no good Android phones available.

mikeryan 16y ago
Actually my understanding is that with Android you can't remove the crap apps that are pre-installed. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/07/android-junkware.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/07/android-j...
- nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
  It depends on how the carrier includes those applications on the phone. If they include the apps in the actual ROM image, a la Gmail/Browser/etc, then they cannot be uninstalled because they're part of the core ROM. If they include the apps installed in the user's data partition, just like any user-installed application would be, then it's uninstallable by the user. Neither methods preclude the carrier from using the other method, and in many cases, carriers will use both. eg, Sprint has their unremovable NASCAR app as part of the ROM, yet also includes an uninstallable demo of Need for Speed on the user partition.
- vetinari 16y ago
  You can remove them... if you have root (or in case of newer Motorola phones, can flash custom firmware). That's why having the ability to replace firmware is important - you do not depend on manufacturer support for newer versions AND they can not force their crap on you.
  - mxavier 16y ago
    Right and doesn't roooting your phone void the warranty? If so, I have to root my HTC Evo, voiding its warranty to get rid of a NASCAR app I will never in my life use.
cmelbye 16y ago
That's the point though. Apple doesn't include NASCAR or Need for Speed, so it doesn't matter that they control the phone more. There's no need to go through and delete stuff when you get the phone, you just get it and start using it.
- lotusleaf1987 16y ago
  Oh come on, I would love to delete weather, stocks, and a YouTube from my iPhone...so even still, not perfect.
SkyMarshal 16y ago
> But... that is what happens today. Not quite. At least with Dell, you can still upgrade Windows via Microsoft Update at will. No waiting around 3 months while Dell integrates MS's updates into Dell Windows, then pushes those updates via Dell Windows Update. But that's what is happening in the Android market. I vaguely recall something about Microsoft including a clause in the Windows OEM license outlining what ways OEMs could and couldn't modify Windows, with ultimate objective being to ensure both uniformity of the Desktop and user experience, and control of it. Seems Google forgot that part. Going to be difficult to add it after the fact.

by neilk 16y ago

mikeryan 16y ago

Actually my understanding is that with Android you can't remove the crap apps that are pre-installed. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/07/android-junkware.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/07/android-j...

nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
It depends on how the carrier includes those applications on the phone. If they include the apps in the actual ROM image, a la Gmail/Browser/etc, then they cannot be uninstalled because they're part of the core ROM. If they include the apps installed in the user's data partition, just like any user-installed application would be, then it's uninstallable by the user. Neither methods preclude the carrier from using the other method, and in many cases, carriers will use both. eg, Sprint has their unremovable NASCAR app as part of the ROM, yet also includes an uninstallable demo of Need for Speed on the user partition.
vetinari 16y ago
You can remove them... if you have root (or in case of newer Motorola phones, can flash custom firmware). That's why having the ability to replace firmware is important - you do not depend on manufacturer support for newer versions AND they can not force their crap on you.
- mxavier 16y ago
  Right and doesn't roooting your phone void the warranty? If so, I have to root my HTC Evo, voiding its warranty to get rid of a NASCAR app I will never in my life use.

cmelbye 16y ago

That's the point though. Apple doesn't include NASCAR or Need for Speed, so it doesn't matter that they control the phone more. There's no need to go through and delete stuff when you get the phone, you just get it and start using it.

lotusleaf1987 16y ago
Oh come on, I would love to delete weather, stocks, and a YouTube from my iPhone...so even still, not perfect.

SkyMarshal 16y ago

> But... that is what happens today. Not quite. At least with Dell, you can still upgrade Windows via Microsoft Update at will. No waiting around 3 months while Dell integrates MS's updates into Dell Windows, then pushes those updates via Dell Windows Update. But that's what is happening in the Android market. I vaguely recall something about Microsoft including a clause in the Windows OEM license outlining what ways OEMs could and couldn't modify Windows, with ultimate objective being to ensure both uniformity of the Desktop and user experience, and control of it. Seems Google forgot that part. Going to be difficult to add it after the fact.