4 ms·

No first hand experience with Android, so I can't confirm any of its claims, but I think you're misreading the article. The problem isn't the different hardware

No first hand experience with Android, so I can't confirm any of its claims, but I think you're misreading the article. The problem isn't the different hardware, the problem is that the open OS allows the carriers to modify the OS (not the hardware) as they see fit. An analogy would be if you bought a Dell computer and it came loaded with "Dell Windows", which was basically just like Windows except that it had a lot of useless Dell apps that were a pain to remove. And as a result, the original Operating System is degraded and the compatibility is compromised.

Timothee 16y ago
Actually, most PC manufacturers have their own Windows image, with the same bloatware that you can find on some phones. Some of it is really customized settings interface (very common for WiFi configuration for example) which I supposed might be necessary sometimes, but otherwise you still find a lot of unnecessary trials and horrible background images.
- protomyth 16y ago
  Do most PC manufactures ship a different UI skin on Windows?
  - ergo98 16y ago
    There was a period where they did. Where one of the reasons people buy a certain brand of PC (like Packard-Bell) was that it came with a unique UI experience. But then that got to be seen as a negative, the market reacted, and those custom skins disappeared. I don't want Sony's Rachael interface so I don't buy an X10, and if enough people feel that way Sony will either improve it or dump it. That's how a normal market works.
ergo98 16y ago
The carriers aren't changing the OS. The handset makers are on behalf of the carriers. The handset makers have their own motivations and restraints limiting just what they'll do on behalf of a carrier. So if Verizon tells Samsung to install a bunch of junk on the phone for them, there is going to be a limit before Samsung says "Nah." And of course reviews will note it, sales will suffer on that carrier, etc. This is quite unlike with Microsoft Windows where it really was the OEMs changing their install image, essentially unbounded. Well aside from simple market effects like "Don't buy an {X} because it's full of crapware."
- nanairo 16y ago
  Yeah, and that's the problem. The moment Samsung says no to Verizon, Verizon will simply stop the deal and ask HTC. And the same is true for Apple or closed OS too: most normal people still don't know pros and cons of the specific OSes. The Android looks close enough to the iOS that I don't think many will care. So if Apple starts being a bit too picky, the provider will just snob them.
  - cstuder 16y ago
    That's actually what happened to Nokia in the European market: They refused to brand their phones the way the carriers wanted and the carriers simply stopped selling subsidized Nokia devices.
    - nanairo 16y ago
      Shit! Are you serious? And me thinking that was limited to the USA. :( Do you have any link about that?
neilk 16y ago
> An analogy would be if you bought a Dell computer and it came loaded with "Dell Windows", which was basically just like Windows except that it had a lot of useless Dell apps that were a pain to remove. But... that is what happens today. And at least you usually can remove that stuff easily. Or go to another, less-shady manufacturer. With the iPhone no amount of effort and expense will help, since they also control the entire competitive landscape. I'm not saying that's worse or better (if you like an Apple-managed platform, fine) but that doesn't mean that more open strategies have failed. Unless you can show that in practice, there are no good Android phones available.
- mikeryan 16y ago
  Actually my understanding is that with Android you can't remove the crap apps that are pre-installed. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/07/android-junkware.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/07/android-j...
  - nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
    It depends on how the carrier includes those applications on the phone. If they include the apps in the actual ROM image, a la Gmail/Browser/etc, then they cannot be uninstalled because they're part of the core ROM. If they include the apps installed in the user's data partition, just like any user-installed application would be, then it's uninstallable by the user. Neither methods preclude the carrier from using the other method, and in many cases, carriers will use both. eg, Sprint has their unremovable NASCAR app as part of the ROM, yet also includes an uninstallable demo of Need for Speed on the user partition.
  - vetinari 16y ago
    You can remove them... if you have root (or in case of newer Motorola phones, can flash custom firmware). That's why having the ability to replace firmware is important - you do not depend on manufacturer support for newer versions AND they can not force their crap on you.
    - 16y ago
theBobMcCormick 16y ago
Although it's less common now, in the Windows 3.1 days it was very common for the hardware manufacturers of the day to include their own "custom" shell that replaced the Windows Program Manager shell

Timothee 16y ago

Actually, most PC manufacturers have their own Windows image, with the same bloatware that you can find on some phones. Some of it is really customized settings interface (very common for WiFi configuration for example) which I supposed might be necessary sometimes, but otherwise you still find a lot of unnecessary trials and horrible background images.

protomyth 16y ago
Do most PC manufactures ship a different UI skin on Windows?
- ergo98 16y ago
  There was a period where they did. Where one of the reasons people buy a certain brand of PC (like Packard-Bell) was that it came with a unique UI experience. But then that got to be seen as a negative, the market reacted, and those custom skins disappeared. I don't want Sony's Rachael interface so I don't buy an X10, and if enough people feel that way Sony will either improve it or dump it. That's how a normal market works.

ergo98 16y ago

The carriers aren't changing the OS. The handset makers are on behalf of the carriers. The handset makers have their own motivations and restraints limiting just what they'll do on behalf of a carrier. So if Verizon tells Samsung to install a bunch of junk on the phone for them, there is going to be a limit before Samsung says "Nah." And of course reviews will note it, sales will suffer on that carrier, etc. This is quite unlike with Microsoft Windows where it really was the OEMs changing their install image, essentially unbounded. Well aside from simple market effects like "Don't buy an {X} because it's full of crapware."

nanairo 16y ago
Yeah, and that's the problem. The moment Samsung says no to Verizon, Verizon will simply stop the deal and ask HTC. And the same is true for Apple or closed OS too: most normal people still don't know pros and cons of the specific OSes. The Android looks close enough to the iOS that I don't think many will care. So if Apple starts being a bit too picky, the provider will just snob them.
- cstuder 16y ago
  That's actually what happened to Nokia in the European market: They refused to brand their phones the way the carriers wanted and the carriers simply stopped selling subsidized Nokia devices.
  - nanairo 16y ago
    Shit! Are you serious? And me thinking that was limited to the USA. :( Do you have any link about that?

neilk 16y ago

> An analogy would be if you bought a Dell computer and it came loaded with "Dell Windows", which was basically just like Windows except that it had a lot of useless Dell apps that were a pain to remove. But... that is what happens today. And at least you usually can remove that stuff easily. Or go to another, less-shady manufacturer. With the iPhone no amount of effort and expense will help, since they also control the entire competitive landscape. I'm not saying that's worse or better (if you like an Apple-managed platform, fine) but that doesn't mean that more open strategies have failed. Unless you can show that in practice, there are no good Android phones available.

mikeryan 16y ago
Actually my understanding is that with Android you can't remove the crap apps that are pre-installed. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/07/android-junkware.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/07/android-j...
- nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
  It depends on how the carrier includes those applications on the phone. If they include the apps in the actual ROM image, a la Gmail/Browser/etc, then they cannot be uninstalled because they're part of the core ROM. If they include the apps installed in the user's data partition, just like any user-installed application would be, then it's uninstallable by the user. Neither methods preclude the carrier from using the other method, and in many cases, carriers will use both. eg, Sprint has their unremovable NASCAR app as part of the ROM, yet also includes an uninstallable demo of Need for Speed on the user partition.
- vetinari 16y ago
  You can remove them... if you have root (or in case of newer Motorola phones, can flash custom firmware). That's why having the ability to replace firmware is important - you do not depend on manufacturer support for newer versions AND they can not force their crap on you.
  - 16y ago

theBobMcCormick 16y ago

Although it's less common now, in the Windows 3.1 days it was very common for the hardware manufacturers of the day to include their own "custom" shell that replaced the Windows Program Manager shell