5 ms·

>If this fails, it is quite possibly the last nail for Kodak.. The equivalent of the founder taking all the remaining company funds to Vegas and betting it all

>If this fails, it is quite possibly the last nail for Kodak.. The equivalent of the founder taking all the remaining company funds to Vegas and betting it all on black.

ergothus 9y ago
Were you referring to FedEx, or just pointing out the riskiness? https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/15/fred-smith-blackjack-fedex_n_1966837.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/15/fred-smith-blackja...
- mstade 9y ago
  Wow, that is one heck of a story! As a business owner, some things come to mind: - How do you explain (to the tax man, really) where the money comes from? - Isn't this a gross misappropriation of company funds, and very much illegal? - How does this guy find pants to fit his enormous balls?
  - chx 9y ago
    The company got an investment from his personal funds. If you are asking about where he as a person got money, Vegas is legal and likely gives tax receipts. He took a loan from the company; if he couldn't pay it back then yeah he is in deep trouble but he could.
    - bonesss 9y ago
      So you're saying it's only a problem if I lose? Well I like those odds ;) This actually triggered a random memory of some court-room drama where a quant embezzled a bunch of money to buy lottery tickets though a system he devised, won, and then got charged after paying back the stolen seed money... in hindsight he woulda gotten away with his fictitious crime if he were a CEO or boardmember...
      - chx 9y ago
        I believe only shareholders could.
    - mstade 9y ago
      Wait, so which was it – he used $5000 of his own money or the company's? I'm surprised loaning money from the company is legal in the U.S., it's certainly not here. Probably because then you can fairly easily create a tax evasion scheme where you never pay yourself a salary and just keep borrowing money at zero interest and payment due long about five years after the sun explodes...
      - BrentOzar 9y ago
        > Probably because then you can fairly easily create a tax evasion scheme where you never pay yourself a salary and just keep borrowing money at zero interest and payment due long about five years after the sun explodes... It's legal here in the US, but there are rules around minimum interest charges. I dealt with this during a partner buyout - the payment schedule HAD to have interest involved or else it was considered a fishy loan. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7872 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7872
      - fyfy18 9y ago
        I don’t know where “here” is, but in the U.K. it’s perfectly legal. You can even give yourself (as a director) an interest free loan. However if the amount owed is greater than ~£10k(?) at the end of the corporate tax year, you need to pay it back within 9 months or it’s treated as income and taxed accordingly (there’s also regulations about paying it off before the end of the corporate tax year and taking out directly after). Still 21 months for an interest free loan isn’t bad...
      - chx 9y ago
        I wonder what "here" is, in Canada, generally, when you borrow funds from your company and don't repay it within one year, the CRA can assess the outstanding balance as ordinary income at an income tax rate similar to that of a salary.
      - charlesdm 9y ago
        Where do you live? This is pretty much legal wherever, as long as you pay market rate interest rates on said loan.
- jpatokal 9y ago
  Pedantic nit: the FedEx story involved a punt on blackjack, which at least involves some skill and where you can eke out a thin theoretical edge against the house if you count cards, not on black as in roulette.
  - matte_black 9y ago
    I believe the on black story was another company, not FedEx.
CydeWeys 9y ago
More like betting it all on a single number. Black has a nearly 50% chance of paying off for you; this cryptocoin gamble is way worse than those odds.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- TomK32 9y ago
  You're better off opening a casino than betting it on Black.
rbobby 9y ago
> betting it all on black. At the blackjack table.

>If this fails, it is quite possibly the last nail for Kodak.. The equivalent of the founder taking all the remaining company funds to Vegas and betting it all on black.

ergothus 9y ago

Were you referring to FedEx, or just pointing out the riskiness? https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/15/fred-smith-blackjack-fedex_n_1966837.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/15/fred-smith-blackja...

mstade 9y ago
Wow, that is one heck of a story! As a business owner, some things come to mind: - How do you explain (to the tax man, really) where the money comes from? - Isn't this a gross misappropriation of company funds, and very much illegal? - How does this guy find pants to fit his enormous balls?
- chx 9y ago
  The company got an investment from his personal funds. If you are asking about where he as a person got money, Vegas is legal and likely gives tax receipts. He took a loan from the company; if he couldn't pay it back then yeah he is in deep trouble but he could.
  - bonesss 9y ago
    So you're saying it's only a problem if I lose? Well I like those odds ;) This actually triggered a random memory of some court-room drama where a quant embezzled a bunch of money to buy lottery tickets though a system he devised, won, and then got charged after paying back the stolen seed money... in hindsight he woulda gotten away with his fictitious crime if he were a CEO or boardmember...
    - chx 9y ago
      I believe only shareholders could.
  - mstade 9y ago
    Wait, so which was it – he used $5000 of his own money or the company's? I'm surprised loaning money from the company is legal in the U.S., it's certainly not here. Probably because then you can fairly easily create a tax evasion scheme where you never pay yourself a salary and just keep borrowing money at zero interest and payment due long about five years after the sun explodes...
    - BrentOzar 9y ago
      > Probably because then you can fairly easily create a tax evasion scheme where you never pay yourself a salary and just keep borrowing money at zero interest and payment due long about five years after the sun explodes... It's legal here in the US, but there are rules around minimum interest charges. I dealt with this during a partner buyout - the payment schedule HAD to have interest involved or else it was considered a fishy loan. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7872 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7872
    - fyfy18 9y ago
      I don’t know where “here” is, but in the U.K. it’s perfectly legal. You can even give yourself (as a director) an interest free loan. However if the amount owed is greater than ~£10k(?) at the end of the corporate tax year, you need to pay it back within 9 months or it’s treated as income and taxed accordingly (there’s also regulations about paying it off before the end of the corporate tax year and taking out directly after). Still 21 months for an interest free loan isn’t bad...
    - chx 9y ago
      I wonder what "here" is, in Canada, generally, when you borrow funds from your company and don't repay it within one year, the CRA can assess the outstanding balance as ordinary income at an income tax rate similar to that of a salary.
    - charlesdm 9y ago
      Where do you live? This is pretty much legal wherever, as long as you pay market rate interest rates on said loan.
jpatokal 9y ago
Pedantic nit: the FedEx story involved a punt on blackjack, which at least involves some skill and where you can eke out a thin theoretical edge against the house if you count cards, not on black as in roulette.
- matte_black 9y ago
  I believe the on black story was another company, not FedEx.

CydeWeys 9y ago

More like betting it all on a single number. Black has a nearly 50% chance of paying off for you; this cryptocoin gamble is way worse than those odds.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
TomK32 9y ago
You're better off opening a casino than betting it on Black.

rbobby 9y ago

> betting it all on black. At the blackjack table.