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I'm upvoting you just for engaging in this conversation, even though I thoroughly disagree with you. :-) The "distributism" described above is the dream of vir

I'm upvoting you just for engaging in this conversation, even though I thoroughly disagree with you. :-) The "distributism" described above is the dream of virtually every rural community. People choose to live in rural communities because it's a little piece of heaven for them: they are surrounded by people they know, they have clean air, the earth is right beneath their feet, the stars are bright, the pace is slow, and so on. They want to serve their neighbors and receive services from their neighbors. How is that mindset pathological? I am always encouraged by innovations that help rural folks be more self-reliant so they can work toward their dream of self-sustaining, independent communities.

scribu 9y ago
The problem is that a small community can’t develop or even maintain advanced technology, including that required for sanitation and healthcare. So, you either choose total independence and low technology or interdependence with other groups and advanced tech.
- kbenson 9y ago
  Well, at least until we reach the science fiction utopian dream of nanoassemblers that can make nanoassemblers. Then rural communities could truly be independent. Although that independence would be like a group of proto humans that knew about fire and how to use it, but not how to make it, and thus carefully guarded it and kept it fed, lest it go out.
- hathawsh 9y ago
  Certainly. There will always be interdependence and rural communities understand that; that's why they drive modern pickup trucks rather than horse-drawn carriages. Still, they are always looking for ways to reduce their dependence on cities.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- ehead 9y ago
  Do you think that we'll be able to escape making this tradeoff in the future? I don't think it's unreasonable to think that sanitation and healthcare technology will advance to the point that they can be implemented in smaller communities at similar levels of quality that could be seen in big cities.
  - scribu 9y ago
    I hope we will have healthcare services that don’t require advanced knowledge or infrastructure to operate, but we’ll still need advanced tech to produce them. I don’t see a way around this, since you always have to start from the same raw materials.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  Distributism includes the principle of subsidiarity, it doesn't exclude the fact that you need large organisations to produce some technology, just that you should tend towards the smallest organisation that can achieve what you need. Capitalism seems to be tending towards the opposite where the winner takes all.
blacksmith_tb 9y ago
Wouldn't it also be possible to see that as rural residents putting on a brave face? The general trend has been towards urbanization globally for the past century or more, and relatively few young people growing up in rural communities seem to be interested in staying in them in the US[1]. 1: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-20/rural-america-is-aging-and-shrinking https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-20/rural-ame...
- rublev 9y ago
  Too many bad actors involved to have a clear sight. Better to start from a clean slate.
- adreamingsoul 9y ago
  That's not true. Almost every person I know in my generation is working hard to buy a piece of land in a rural community.
  - tjr225 9y ago
    While your experience might tell you that the reality is that is simply not true. You're countering a statistically sourced statement with an anecdote.
    - bonesss 9y ago
      There are two actually statistics underlying the discussion here, and from my reading both points are right (though disagreeing that we're urbanizing is incorrect)... 1) Our general trend is towards urbanization, humanity is now more urban than rural, and every quality of life index shows cities give more good to more people better. 2) Millennials, hipsters in particular, in American markets with crushing real estate prices have recently begun reverse-migrating away from the cities and to more rural areas with romanticized lifestyles creating some new demographic, and real estate, trends. In terms of pure statistics we're looking at a sub-group with a different trend than the overall group. Most potatos aren't from my backyard, but those potatoes are only getting prettier while the many thousands at the market are getting uglier ;)

scribu 9y ago

The problem is that a small community can’t develop or even maintain advanced technology, including that required for sanitation and healthcare. So, you either choose total independence and low technology or interdependence with other groups and advanced tech.

kbenson 9y ago
Well, at least until we reach the science fiction utopian dream of nanoassemblers that can make nanoassemblers. Then rural communities could truly be independent. Although that independence would be like a group of proto humans that knew about fire and how to use it, but not how to make it, and thus carefully guarded it and kept it fed, lest it go out.
hathawsh 9y ago
Certainly. There will always be interdependence and rural communities understand that; that's why they drive modern pickup trucks rather than horse-drawn carriages. Still, they are always looking for ways to reduce their dependence on cities.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
ehead 9y ago
Do you think that we'll be able to escape making this tradeoff in the future? I don't think it's unreasonable to think that sanitation and healthcare technology will advance to the point that they can be implemented in smaller communities at similar levels of quality that could be seen in big cities.
- scribu 9y ago
  I hope we will have healthcare services that don’t require advanced knowledge or infrastructure to operate, but we’ll still need advanced tech to produce them. I don’t see a way around this, since you always have to start from the same raw materials.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
Distributism includes the principle of subsidiarity, it doesn't exclude the fact that you need large organisations to produce some technology, just that you should tend towards the smallest organisation that can achieve what you need. Capitalism seems to be tending towards the opposite where the winner takes all.

blacksmith_tb 9y ago

Wouldn't it also be possible to see that as rural residents putting on a brave face? The general trend has been towards urbanization globally for the past century or more, and relatively few young people growing up in rural communities seem to be interested in staying in them in the US[1]. 1: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-20/rural-america-is-aging-and-shrinking https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-20/rural-ame...

rublev 9y ago
Too many bad actors involved to have a clear sight. Better to start from a clean slate.
adreamingsoul 9y ago
That's not true. Almost every person I know in my generation is working hard to buy a piece of land in a rural community.
- tjr225 9y ago
  While your experience might tell you that the reality is that is simply not true. You're countering a statistically sourced statement with an anecdote.
  - bonesss 9y ago
    There are two actually statistics underlying the discussion here, and from my reading both points are right (though disagreeing that we're urbanizing is incorrect)... 1) Our general trend is towards urbanization, humanity is now more urban than rural, and every quality of life index shows cities give more good to more people better. 2) Millennials, hipsters in particular, in American markets with crushing real estate prices have recently begun reverse-migrating away from the cities and to more rural areas with romanticized lifestyles creating some new demographic, and real estate, trends. In terms of pure statistics we're looking at a sub-group with a different trend than the overall group. Most potatos aren't from my backyard, but those potatoes are only getting prettier while the many thousands at the market are getting uglier ;)