6 ms·

Well one difference is that bitcoin has no intrinsic value, ie, it's online gambling in disguise. I believe that Facebook currently bans ads for online gambling

Well one difference is that bitcoin has no intrinsic value, ie, it's online gambling in disguise. I believe that Facebook currently bans ads for online gambling. Don't agree? Ask yourself, why don't you see ads for other commodities, like rice or iron? Because there's no money in that. So how come there's money in ads for bitcoin? Could it be because bitcoin is not actually a commodity?

bhauer 9y ago
I hear what you're saying, but am compelled to ask: what intrinsic value does gold have?
- fwdpropaganda 9y ago
  Don't know, I don't buy gold either.
- nkozyra 9y ago
  Gold is intrinsically scarce, but I understand where you're going. Perhaps FB has just seen that this category of advertisement is more likely to attract scammers?
- JBReefer 9y ago
  There are a ton of industrial uses for gold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Other_applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Other_applications Spacecraft shielding is my favorite
- anderspitman 9y ago
  I forget who said it, but I once heard something along the lines of, "if we get into a situation where the value of gold goes through the roof, it'll be because things have gotten really bad. And if they're that bad people are going to realize pretty quick that they don't want gold. They want water bottles and gasoline."
  - mulmen 9y ago
    I don't get it. If people realize they don't want gold why would the price go up?
    - untog 9y ago
      I think the implication is that the price will spike quickly, then collapse through the floor when people realise the true situation.
      - anderspitman 9y ago
        yeah sorry if that wasn't clear
- delecti 9y ago
  Gold is shiny, stable (chemically and nuclearly), heavy (harder to fake by coating a facsimile), and rare. It's not "useful" per se (outside niche applications), but it definitely has a certain intrinsic suitability as currency.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Also, if all goes to shit, a bar of gold can still be used to club someone to death and take their supplies. Compare with bitcoin, which has no physical form and is only usable in context of present economy of technological civilization.
tensor 9y ago
The USD is no longer backed by gold and you could say it also has no intrinsic value.
- blibble 9y ago
  it will always have value as long as it in the only thing the IRS accepts for taxes due
  - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
    It's the only thing the IRS accepts for taxes, it's the only thing that Saudi Arabia accepts for oil, etc. There's many good reasons for the dollar to have non-zero intrinsic value.
    - danaris 9y ago
      That's still not an intrinsic value: it's a consensus value. Intrinsic value is the value it has even if it is not thought of as a currency or unit of trade.
      - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
        > Intrinsic value is the value it has even if it is not thought of as a currency or unit of trade. That's like, your definition dude. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp > The intrinsic value is the actual value of a company or an asset based on an underlying perception of its true value including all aspects of the business, in terms of both tangible and intangible factors. This value may or may not be the same as the current market value.
        wuliwong 9y ago
        I don't think I agree that this is what people mean when they say "bitcoin has no intrinsic value but gold does." I think that it is a laymen's statement and they are really referring to value or utility outside of being currency. They are not meaning to reference fundamental analysis in finance.
dr_win 9y ago
Intrinsic value of bitcoin tokens is the ability to use them to append a hash value into immutable eternal excel spreadsheet with no censorship possible. You can use this to prove some data existed at some point in time (proof of existence) or that some data was published (proof of publication). With these primitives you can build some interesting digital infrastructure (ledgers, smart contract platforms, etc.). That is exact equivalent to industrial use of gold as gold's intrinsic value.
- davidcbc 9y ago
  At best those are potential intrinsic values for blockchains, not bitcoin.
  - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
    I've started typing a long discussion along the same line and then decided it wasn't worth my time. Brevity is the soul of wit I guess.
  - moduspol 9y ago
    How many blockchains have 19 trillion hashes per second being calculated to secure them?
- wpietri 9y ago
  The key difference being that the intrinsic use of gold is proven by thousands of years of use and a current robust market in the $100 billion/year range [1], while the "intrinsic value" of Bitcoin has no historical track record and approximately $0 current demand. An important second difference is that creating a replacement for the intrinsic value of gold is somewhere between difficult and impossible, whereas it appears any hustler who can scrape together three programmers can launch a Bitcoin alternative. Even if Bitcoin's intrinsic value were real, approximately infinite supply means the effective intrinsic value would be approximately zero. [1] https://www.gold.org/research/gold-demand-trends/gold-demand-trends-q3-2017 https://www.gold.org/research/gold-demand-trends/gold-demand...
  - 9y ago
hw 9y ago
> why don't you see ads for other commodities, like rice or iron No one buys rice or iron on Facebook, but Bitcoin is mainstream enough where the Facebook audience is a good target. > Well one difference is that bitcoin has no intrinsic value, ie, it's online gambling in disguise While there are cryptocurrencies that are pump and dump and scams, there are legit ones that are being used as actual currency in transactions for actual products all over the world. I can buy coffee with cryptocurrency, but I certainly won't be able to pay for it with gold. Calling bitcoin 'online gambling in disguise' is like calling the stock market and forex trading 'online gambling'.

bhauer 9y ago

I hear what you're saying, but am compelled to ask: what intrinsic value does gold have?

fwdpropaganda 9y ago
Don't know, I don't buy gold either.
nkozyra 9y ago
Gold is intrinsically scarce, but I understand where you're going. Perhaps FB has just seen that this category of advertisement is more likely to attract scammers?
JBReefer 9y ago
There are a ton of industrial uses for gold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Other_applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Other_applications Spacecraft shielding is my favorite
anderspitman 9y ago
I forget who said it, but I once heard something along the lines of, "if we get into a situation where the value of gold goes through the roof, it'll be because things have gotten really bad. And if they're that bad people are going to realize pretty quick that they don't want gold. They want water bottles and gasoline."
- mulmen 9y ago
  I don't get it. If people realize they don't want gold why would the price go up?
  - untog 9y ago
    I think the implication is that the price will spike quickly, then collapse through the floor when people realise the true situation.
    - anderspitman 9y ago
      yeah sorry if that wasn't clear
delecti 9y ago
Gold is shiny, stable (chemically and nuclearly), heavy (harder to fake by coating a facsimile), and rare. It's not "useful" per se (outside niche applications), but it definitely has a certain intrinsic suitability as currency.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Also, if all goes to shit, a bar of gold can still be used to club someone to death and take their supplies. Compare with bitcoin, which has no physical form and is only usable in context of present economy of technological civilization.

tensor 9y ago

The USD is no longer backed by gold and you could say it also has no intrinsic value.

blibble 9y ago
it will always have value as long as it in the only thing the IRS accepts for taxes due
- fwdpropaganda 9y ago
  It's the only thing the IRS accepts for taxes, it's the only thing that Saudi Arabia accepts for oil, etc. There's many good reasons for the dollar to have non-zero intrinsic value.
  - danaris 9y ago
    That's still not an intrinsic value: it's a consensus value. Intrinsic value is the value it has even if it is not thought of as a currency or unit of trade.
    - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
      > Intrinsic value is the value it has even if it is not thought of as a currency or unit of trade. That's like, your definition dude. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp > The intrinsic value is the actual value of a company or an asset based on an underlying perception of its true value including all aspects of the business, in terms of both tangible and intangible factors. This value may or may not be the same as the current market value.
      - wuliwong 9y ago
        I don't think I agree that this is what people mean when they say "bitcoin has no intrinsic value but gold does." I think that it is a laymen's statement and they are really referring to value or utility outside of being currency. They are not meaning to reference fundamental analysis in finance.

dr_win 9y ago

Intrinsic value of bitcoin tokens is the ability to use them to append a hash value into immutable eternal excel spreadsheet with no censorship possible. You can use this to prove some data existed at some point in time (proof of existence) or that some data was published (proof of publication). With these primitives you can build some interesting digital infrastructure (ledgers, smart contract platforms, etc.). That is exact equivalent to industrial use of gold as gold's intrinsic value.

davidcbc 9y ago
At best those are potential intrinsic values for blockchains, not bitcoin.
- fwdpropaganda 9y ago
  I've started typing a long discussion along the same line and then decided it wasn't worth my time. Brevity is the soul of wit I guess.
- moduspol 9y ago
  How many blockchains have 19 trillion hashes per second being calculated to secure them?
wpietri 9y ago
The key difference being that the intrinsic use of gold is proven by thousands of years of use and a current robust market in the $100 billion/year range [1], while the "intrinsic value" of Bitcoin has no historical track record and approximately $0 current demand. An important second difference is that creating a replacement for the intrinsic value of gold is somewhere between difficult and impossible, whereas it appears any hustler who can scrape together three programmers can launch a Bitcoin alternative. Even if Bitcoin's intrinsic value were real, approximately infinite supply means the effective intrinsic value would be approximately zero. [1] https://www.gold.org/research/gold-demand-trends/gold-demand-trends-q3-2017 https://www.gold.org/research/gold-demand-trends/gold-demand...
- 9y ago

hw 9y ago

> why don't you see ads for other commodities, like rice or iron No one buys rice or iron on Facebook, but Bitcoin is mainstream enough where the Facebook audience is a good target. > Well one difference is that bitcoin has no intrinsic value, ie, it's online gambling in disguise While there are cryptocurrencies that are pump and dump and scams, there are legit ones that are being used as actual currency in transactions for actual products all over the world. I can buy coffee with cryptocurrency, but I certainly won't be able to pay for it with gold. Calling bitcoin 'online gambling in disguise' is like calling the stock market and forex trading 'online gambling'.