6 ms·

How trustworthy is Kraken? Tether looks like a good short since if it is a fraud it will go way down and if it isn't a fraud it will stay right where it is. I

How trustworthy is Kraken? Tether looks like a good short since if it is a fraud it will go way down and if it isn't a fraud it will stay right where it is. I'm in the US and would like to short Tether. But I want to get paid if I'm right.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
Why would someone ever take the other end of that bet?
- gramstrong 9y ago
  We're talking crypto investors here. The ones that preach diversification, and then sell every single one of their alt coins when the bitcoin bubble is deflating.
  - singularity2001 9y ago
    also the selling is often shockingly synchronised. just compare bitcoin and ether charts
    - YetAnotherNick 9y ago
      What? See ether to btc here: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethereum/ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethereum/
jonknee 9y ago
The best way is probably to sell BTC futures, if Tether/Bitfinex go down the market will be chaos and won't have the Tether protection team to bid it back up. Those are cash settled and you will 100% get your money. Shorting on any crypto exchange has a lot more counterparty risk.
- stanleydrew 9y ago
  Let's say I'm hypothetically inclined to sell BTC futures. Where would I go to do that?
  - knlam 9y ago
    http://www.cboe.com/ http://www.cboe.com/
  - jonknee 9y ago
    The easiest is probably through a stock broker. Futures are risky (typically highly levered, though less so for BTC) and they usually make you have a decent chunk of change before they'll give you access.
    - stanleydrew 9y ago
      I have a few brokerage accounts at a few places (Fidelity, E-Trade, Vanguard). Haven't done much margin trading and never worked with futures (done a little with options) so I just don't know what to look for in the interfaces. Is there a "ticker symbol" that represents a future contract for Bitcoin? Are there multiple parties offering such contracts? Is there a broker that you know of who's currently offering these contracts? I found this, but it didn't clarify much: http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/bitcoin.html http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/bitcoi... Thanks for the help. If it's easier to follow up by email it's in my profile.
      - jonknee 9y ago
        You would need to be specifically approved for futures, E-Trade definitely supports it (and the BTC contracts): https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/investment-choices/futures https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/investment-choices/futur... Two futures exchanges run Bitcoin contracts, CME (trading under BTC) and CBOE (trading under XBT). They're not a lot different outside of size, CME's contract represents 5 bitcoins while CBOE's represents 1. Here's a decent listing of the differences: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-futures-contracts-factbox/factbox-bitcoin-futures-contracts-at-cme-and-cboe-idUSKBN1E92IR https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-futures-contracts... It's definitely worth reading up on how futures work before trading them, but it's similar to stocks in terms of using a ticker[1] and making buy/sell orders. A key difference is margin, but with the volatility of bitcoin both exchanges have really high margin limits so you can't get into too much trouble. The other key difference is you're trading a specific month so you need to be more correct on timing than you would for a stock. [1] The tickers work a little different than stocks in that the root is XBT or BTC, but the full symbol for the contract includes the month and year. This is similar to options. Your trading platform should make this clear.
knownothing 9y ago
Good luck finding a counterparty.
GenericsMotors 9y ago
> How trustworthy is Kraken? They spoof their order books and use wash trading bots...so draw your own conclusions :) Eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-ziPfP00M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-ziPfP00M
- gruez 9y ago
  ...on USDT. how are they even benefiting from this?
  - GenericsMotors 9y ago
    To keep the price pegged at around 1USD
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
AgentME 9y ago
I've had good enough experiences with inter-cryptocurrency trading on Kraken, but I've never actually been able to get their site to let me wire USD in or out of it to a bank account. Always just site errors when I try to do that.
wbraun 9y ago
I have considered this in the past. The issue is that the kraken order books are rather shallow. Someone could intentionally cause a flash spike and force liquidation of any shorts rather easily, so its far from risk free.
singularity2001 9y ago
let's just say when there will be a run to the banks, Kraken is not likely to be the one with the longest opening hours.
twinkletwinkle 9y ago
> and if it isn't a fraud it will stay right where it is I'm not actually qualified to give investing advice. But this part isn't strictly true. In a functioning market, the price could be depressed by the regulatory uncertainty. If that were the case and it was cleared up, you would see the price rise.
- oculusthrift 9y ago
  right but it’ll never go over something like 1.04 because it’s supposed to be pegged to a dollar
kot-behemoth 9y ago
Kraken allows wash trading (proof: https://twitter.com/Bitfinexed/status/957757842852806657 https://twitter.com/Bitfinexed/status/957757842852806657), so really untrustworthy.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago

Why would someone ever take the other end of that bet?

gramstrong 9y ago
We're talking crypto investors here. The ones that preach diversification, and then sell every single one of their alt coins when the bitcoin bubble is deflating.
- singularity2001 9y ago
  also the selling is often shockingly synchronised. just compare bitcoin and ether charts
  - YetAnotherNick 9y ago
    What? See ether to btc here: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethereum/ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethereum/

jonknee 9y ago

The best way is probably to sell BTC futures, if Tether/Bitfinex go down the market will be chaos and won't have the Tether protection team to bid it back up. Those are cash settled and you will 100% get your money. Shorting on any crypto exchange has a lot more counterparty risk.

stanleydrew 9y ago
Let's say I'm hypothetically inclined to sell BTC futures. Where would I go to do that?
- knlam 9y ago
  http://www.cboe.com/ http://www.cboe.com/
- jonknee 9y ago
  The easiest is probably through a stock broker. Futures are risky (typically highly levered, though less so for BTC) and they usually make you have a decent chunk of change before they'll give you access.
  - stanleydrew 9y ago
    I have a few brokerage accounts at a few places (Fidelity, E-Trade, Vanguard). Haven't done much margin trading and never worked with futures (done a little with options) so I just don't know what to look for in the interfaces. Is there a "ticker symbol" that represents a future contract for Bitcoin? Are there multiple parties offering such contracts? Is there a broker that you know of who's currently offering these contracts? I found this, but it didn't clarify much: http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/bitcoin.html http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/bitcoi... Thanks for the help. If it's easier to follow up by email it's in my profile.
    - jonknee 9y ago
      You would need to be specifically approved for futures, E-Trade definitely supports it (and the BTC contracts): https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/investment-choices/futures https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/investment-choices/futur... Two futures exchanges run Bitcoin contracts, CME (trading under BTC) and CBOE (trading under XBT). They're not a lot different outside of size, CME's contract represents 5 bitcoins while CBOE's represents 1. Here's a decent listing of the differences: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-futures-contracts-factbox/factbox-bitcoin-futures-contracts-at-cme-and-cboe-idUSKBN1E92IR https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-futures-contracts... It's definitely worth reading up on how futures work before trading them, but it's similar to stocks in terms of using a ticker[1] and making buy/sell orders. A key difference is margin, but with the volatility of bitcoin both exchanges have really high margin limits so you can't get into too much trouble. The other key difference is you're trading a specific month so you need to be more correct on timing than you would for a stock. [1] The tickers work a little different than stocks in that the root is XBT or BTC, but the full symbol for the contract includes the month and year. This is similar to options. Your trading platform should make this clear.

knownothing 9y ago

Good luck finding a counterparty.

GenericsMotors 9y ago

> How trustworthy is Kraken? They spoof their order books and use wash trading bots...so draw your own conclusions :) Eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-ziPfP00M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-ziPfP00M

gruez 9y ago
...on USDT. how are they even benefiting from this?
- GenericsMotors 9y ago
  To keep the price pegged at around 1USD
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

AgentME 9y ago

I've had good enough experiences with inter-cryptocurrency trading on Kraken, but I've never actually been able to get their site to let me wire USD in or out of it to a bank account. Always just site errors when I try to do that.

wbraun 9y ago

I have considered this in the past. The issue is that the kraken order books are rather shallow. Someone could intentionally cause a flash spike and force liquidation of any shorts rather easily, so its far from risk free.

singularity2001 9y ago

let's just say when there will be a run to the banks, Kraken is not likely to be the one with the longest opening hours.

twinkletwinkle 9y ago

> and if it isn't a fraud it will stay right where it is I'm not actually qualified to give investing advice. But this part isn't strictly true. In a functioning market, the price could be depressed by the regulatory uncertainty. If that were the case and it was cleared up, you would see the price rise.

oculusthrift 9y ago
right but it’ll never go over something like 1.04 because it’s supposed to be pegged to a dollar

kot-behemoth 9y ago

Kraken allows wash trading (proof: https://twitter.com/Bitfinexed/status/957757842852806657 https://twitter.com/Bitfinexed/status/957757842852806657), so really untrustworthy.