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> Stopping people’s phones from randomly shutting off is anti-consumer? Funny thing is, I've owned non-Apple phones for years and I've never had any "randomly

> Stopping people’s phones from randomly shutting off is anti-consumer? Funny thing is, I've owned non-Apple phones for years and I've never had any "randomly shut off." If you pay half attention to the battery capacity icon and/or warnings the devices gives you, any 'shutting off' due to no more battery charge will not be random.

basch 9y ago
it's not about "no more battery" its about peak cpu usage drawing too much power instantaneously. all apple did was cap peak power draw in the power drivers. this prevents data loss. it's a good feature if designed correctly.
- lostmsu 9y ago
  How about a recall?
  - snowwrestler 9y ago
    Why? Because Li-Po batteries don't maintain their peak performance forever? Maybe Ford should recall their cars because the tires eventually wear out?
    - lostmsu 9y ago
      It would have to if they would wear out during manufacturer's warranty.
vrcasul 9y ago
Battery indicator isn't always accurate. My Moto X shuts off at 40% in cold weather.
- jonny_eh 9y ago
  This is due to peak voltage not being available when battery is worn down. This is why Apple slowed their processors, so they wouldn't draw peak voltage.
- eunoia 9y ago
  Cold weather is brutal on phone batteries. I've experienced shutdown problems with every generation of iPhone up through the 7 when taken out in very cold weather on the mountain (sub 20 Fahrenheit with wind). I always attributed it to an unintended side effect of the case itself being used as a heat sink. Battery gets very cold very fast and loses peak voltage. Would be interested to hear if there's a more accurate explanation.
  - macintux 9y ago
    I was pleasantly surprised with my iPhone X. I was taking photos in quite cold weather (IIRC it was around -5F), which would have caused me no end of grief with older phones, but the X handled it like a champ.
    - eunoia 9y ago
      That's great to hear. I updated my post to point out my experience is only up to and including the 7.
      - macintux 9y ago
        Well, one anecdote doth not a trend make.
chris11 9y ago
My Nexus 5X now stays on for a lot less time after I get a low battery warning than when it was new.
- JAFTEM 9y ago
  My Nexus 6p is the same. At exactly 15% battery if I open specific apps I immediately get notified that my battery is 0% and my phone turns off. This only started within the last 6 or so months.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - digi_owl 9y ago
    The way battery capacity is measured is by looking at the output voltage. The voltage written on a standard battery cell is the "average" voltage the cell will produce across its life time. As amperage is spent(?), the voltage will drop slightly, so the cell will start out higher than listed and end lower than listed. What is likely happening is that the when a certain app is started, various parts of the hardware is clocked up to handle the work load. This result in a higher draw, and a sharp drop in the measured voltage, in turn the power management logic considers the battery nearly drained and shut down. Never mind that unlike older battery chemistry, lithium batteries do not take kindly to being fully drained. Thus there will be a programmed safety margin involved.
    - chris11 9y ago
      App usage could definitely play a factor. But usually now turns off right after I get a low battery warning and it enters power-saving mode.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Well, my friend's Samsung lasts 2h after it reaches 0%. Sometimes it's just a bug.
  - pkaye 9y ago
snowwindwaves 9y ago
as a counterpoint of anecdata, I had an iphone 5 that often got exposed to high and low temperature extremes, and it would shut off randomly with no warning when the battery indicator was at 80% if it was out in the cold or in the heat. I don't update my phone or my computer, once it does what I need it to do I don't mess with it. in this case I got a new phone because I thought there was some problem with the battery.
- dhimes 9y ago
  I don't update my phone or my computer, once it does what I need it to do I don't mess with it. eh?
  - lotu 9y ago
    Presumably hosting malware isn't one of the things the poster "needs it to do".
    - snowwindwaves 9y ago
      I seem to be impervious to malware and viruses. Maybe because I don't download and run random exe files, don't get involved with suspicious e-mails, don't go to dodgy websites, have a firewall at home on which I can monitor all connections, etc. I refuse to use anti-virus software as well, it is the cure that is worse than the disease. My PC did get hacked in the 90s when I was running something like kernel 2.0.36. Look at all the trouble people are having with the meltdown/spectre updates. I haven't updated, I have no trouble. The odds of trouble if you update I think are much higher than the odds of any trouble from not updating. Keep in mind I'm talking about a PC behind a firewall not an internet facing server.
- ryanmarsh 9y ago
  I too had an older model iPhone (with an aging battery) that would shut off when exposed to cold temps. I would have much rather had the software automatically govern draw on the battery because trying to hail an uber at 3am in the freezing cold and having your phone randomly shut off isn't fun. I cannot get behind the criticism of Apple on this specific issue. I think they were doing the right thing and I think adding a software option to allow the user to disable the governor algorithm (for lack of a better term) is akin to giving the user enough rope to hang themselves with.
SyneRyder 9y ago
I definitely had random shut-off issues with my 3-4 year old Google Nexus 5. It would shut off randomly and without warning, even when the battery was around 50%, or sometimes even higher. It happened while I was travelling, and having the phone shut down isn't helpful when you're trying to navigate via Google Maps, or take photographs, or while you're trying to hail an Uber. I would have loved to have the option to slow my phone down instead in that circumstance instead of just random shutdown and reboot.
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  Implicit in that, but by no means confirmed, in either iOS or Android, for that matter, is the assumption that said shut offs were "insufficient power" related, and not app/OS hard crashes.

basch 9y ago

it's not about "no more battery" its about peak cpu usage drawing too much power instantaneously. all apple did was cap peak power draw in the power drivers. this prevents data loss. it's a good feature if designed correctly.

lostmsu 9y ago
How about a recall?
- snowwrestler 9y ago
  Why? Because Li-Po batteries don't maintain their peak performance forever? Maybe Ford should recall their cars because the tires eventually wear out?
  - lostmsu 9y ago
    It would have to if they would wear out during manufacturer's warranty.

vrcasul 9y ago

Battery indicator isn't always accurate. My Moto X shuts off at 40% in cold weather.

jonny_eh 9y ago
This is due to peak voltage not being available when battery is worn down. This is why Apple slowed their processors, so they wouldn't draw peak voltage.
eunoia 9y ago
Cold weather is brutal on phone batteries. I've experienced shutdown problems with every generation of iPhone up through the 7 when taken out in very cold weather on the mountain (sub 20 Fahrenheit with wind). I always attributed it to an unintended side effect of the case itself being used as a heat sink. Battery gets very cold very fast and loses peak voltage. Would be interested to hear if there's a more accurate explanation.
- macintux 9y ago
  I was pleasantly surprised with my iPhone X. I was taking photos in quite cold weather (IIRC it was around -5F), which would have caused me no end of grief with older phones, but the X handled it like a champ.
  - eunoia 9y ago
    That's great to hear. I updated my post to point out my experience is only up to and including the 7.
    - macintux 9y ago
      Well, one anecdote doth not a trend make.

chris11 9y ago

My Nexus 5X now stays on for a lot less time after I get a low battery warning than when it was new.

JAFTEM 9y ago
My Nexus 6p is the same. At exactly 15% battery if I open specific apps I immediately get notified that my battery is 0% and my phone turns off. This only started within the last 6 or so months.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- digi_owl 9y ago
  The way battery capacity is measured is by looking at the output voltage. The voltage written on a standard battery cell is the "average" voltage the cell will produce across its life time. As amperage is spent(?), the voltage will drop slightly, so the cell will start out higher than listed and end lower than listed. What is likely happening is that the when a certain app is started, various parts of the hardware is clocked up to handle the work load. This result in a higher draw, and a sharp drop in the measured voltage, in turn the power management logic considers the battery nearly drained and shut down. Never mind that unlike older battery chemistry, lithium batteries do not take kindly to being fully drained. Thus there will be a programmed safety margin involved.
  - chris11 9y ago
    App usage could definitely play a factor. But usually now turns off right after I get a low battery warning and it enters power-saving mode.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Well, my friend's Samsung lasts 2h after it reaches 0%. Sometimes it's just a bug.
- pkaye 9y ago

snowwindwaves 9y ago

as a counterpoint of anecdata, I had an iphone 5 that often got exposed to high and low temperature extremes, and it would shut off randomly with no warning when the battery indicator was at 80% if it was out in the cold or in the heat. I don't update my phone or my computer, once it does what I need it to do I don't mess with it. in this case I got a new phone because I thought there was some problem with the battery.

dhimes 9y ago
I don't update my phone or my computer, once it does what I need it to do I don't mess with it. eh?
- lotu 9y ago
  Presumably hosting malware isn't one of the things the poster "needs it to do".
  - snowwindwaves 9y ago
    I seem to be impervious to malware and viruses. Maybe because I don't download and run random exe files, don't get involved with suspicious e-mails, don't go to dodgy websites, have a firewall at home on which I can monitor all connections, etc. I refuse to use anti-virus software as well, it is the cure that is worse than the disease. My PC did get hacked in the 90s when I was running something like kernel 2.0.36. Look at all the trouble people are having with the meltdown/spectre updates. I haven't updated, I have no trouble. The odds of trouble if you update I think are much higher than the odds of any trouble from not updating. Keep in mind I'm talking about a PC behind a firewall not an internet facing server.
ryanmarsh 9y ago
I too had an older model iPhone (with an aging battery) that would shut off when exposed to cold temps. I would have much rather had the software automatically govern draw on the battery because trying to hail an uber at 3am in the freezing cold and having your phone randomly shut off isn't fun. I cannot get behind the criticism of Apple on this specific issue. I think they were doing the right thing and I think adding a software option to allow the user to disable the governor algorithm (for lack of a better term) is akin to giving the user enough rope to hang themselves with.

SyneRyder 9y ago

I definitely had random shut-off issues with my 3-4 year old Google Nexus 5. It would shut off randomly and without warning, even when the battery was around 50%, or sometimes even higher. It happened while I was travelling, and having the phone shut down isn't helpful when you're trying to navigate via Google Maps, or take photographs, or while you're trying to hail an Uber. I would have loved to have the option to slow my phone down instead in that circumstance instead of just random shutdown and reboot.

FireBeyond 9y ago
Implicit in that, but by no means confirmed, in either iOS or Android, for that matter, is the assumption that said shut offs were "insufficient power" related, and not app/OS hard crashes.