4 ms·

Pedants, all of you.

by ollerac 9y ago

Cyberdog 9y ago
Hello. Welcome to Hacker News. Enjoy your visit!
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
  - Cyberdog 9y ago
    Was that addressed to me? I certainly wasn't attempting to diss the community at large. Yes, sometimes the pedantry and "um actually" nature of this place bugs me, but that's just what happens in gatherings of nerds.
    - dang 9y ago
      OK, I overinterpreted you and will delete my comment. Sorry! (It was still an unsubstantive post though... please don't post those, even when someone else is setting a bad example.)
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
dang 9y ago
I know how annoying it can be to run across internet comments that seem insufferably pedantic. But would you please not post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? As much of a problem as pedantry is, empty, name-calling comments are much worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- nkoren 9y ago
  Huh, interesting. Personally I read that as being a kind of wry, collegial, back-handed complement. Wasn't at all taken aback; it put a smile on my face. But perhaps I'm seeing British Humour where there is none. And you're right that it wasn't substantiative, and nobody wants HN to turn into Reddit. So if earnestness is to rule the day, allow me to say that my point was more serious than mere pedantry. Because most of us here are software people living highly visual environments, and because our thinking is shaped by language that disproportionally based on visual metaphors, we tend to assume that "interfaces" are necessarily visual systems. They are not. They can be auditory and even tactile. If an audio message gives incorrect, contradictory, or badly-structured information, then that's no less an interface failure than a badly-designed web page. In this case, both the audio message and the alert interface shared a common point of failure: a deep, seemingly institutional inattention to how information is presented and interpreted. In both cases, doing a better job with the interfaces is hardly rocket science; that's not the interesting part of this fiasco. The interesting part is: why didn't the institutions care about this, how did the project managers fail to spot the problems, and how should this change procurement and management practices in the future? Hopefully that's a bit less pedantic!
  - dang 9y ago
    I like your interpretation better than mine.
    - nkoren 9y ago
      Yeah, but I'm privileged. When somebody is definitely being an ass-hat online, I have the luxury of breezily going about my merry and generally not giving a flip. Life is too short for flame wars. So lacking significant exposure to ass-hattery, I tend to optimistically assume that I'm not seeing it. Might be overly innocent, but keeps me happy. Being a mod has got to be tough: you're not allowed to look away from the assholes; you're required to look directly at them. After dealing with the 10,000th jerkwad, an optimistic reading of what anyone says has got to be challenging. So divergent readings are totally understandable, and thanks for the reminder that when using flippancy or sarcasm online, it's a good idea to telegraph one's amiable intent.

Pedants, all of you.

Cyberdog 9y ago

Hello. Welcome to Hacker News. Enjoy your visit!

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  Was that addressed to me? I certainly wasn't attempting to diss the community at large. Yes, sometimes the pedantry and "um actually" nature of this place bugs me, but that's just what happens in gatherings of nerds.
  - dang 9y ago
    OK, I overinterpreted you and will delete my comment. Sorry! (It was still an unsubstantive post though... please don't post those, even when someone else is setting a bad example.)

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

dang 9y ago

I know how annoying it can be to run across internet comments that seem insufferably pedantic. But would you please not post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? As much of a problem as pedantry is, empty, name-calling comments are much worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

nkoren 9y ago
Huh, interesting. Personally I read that as being a kind of wry, collegial, back-handed complement. Wasn't at all taken aback; it put a smile on my face. But perhaps I'm seeing British Humour where there is none. And you're right that it wasn't substantiative, and nobody wants HN to turn into Reddit. So if earnestness is to rule the day, allow me to say that my point was more serious than mere pedantry. Because most of us here are software people living highly visual environments, and because our thinking is shaped by language that disproportionally based on visual metaphors, we tend to assume that "interfaces" are necessarily visual systems. They are not. They can be auditory and even tactile. If an audio message gives incorrect, contradictory, or badly-structured information, then that's no less an interface failure than a badly-designed web page. In this case, both the audio message and the alert interface shared a common point of failure: a deep, seemingly institutional inattention to how information is presented and interpreted. In both cases, doing a better job with the interfaces is hardly rocket science; that's not the interesting part of this fiasco. The interesting part is: why didn't the institutions care about this, how did the project managers fail to spot the problems, and how should this change procurement and management practices in the future? Hopefully that's a bit less pedantic!
- dang 9y ago
  I like your interpretation better than mine.
  - nkoren 9y ago
    Yeah, but I'm privileged. When somebody is definitely being an ass-hat online, I have the luxury of breezily going about my merry and generally not giving a flip. Life is too short for flame wars. So lacking significant exposure to ass-hattery, I tend to optimistically assume that I'm not seeing it. Might be overly innocent, but keeps me happy. Being a mod has got to be tough: you're not allowed to look away from the assholes; you're required to look directly at them. After dealing with the 10,000th jerkwad, an optimistic reading of what anyone says has got to be challenging. So divergent readings are totally understandable, and thanks for the reminder that when using flippancy or sarcasm online, it's a good idea to telegraph one's amiable intent.