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So who was fired for this? Someone dropped the ball by not communicating the fact that this was a test to the employee who sent the false alarm. That person sho

So who was fired for this? Someone dropped the ball by not communicating the fact that this was a test to the employee who sent the false alarm. That person should be fired. This reads like a classic tale of government incompetence. If you don't fire people in a situation like this, why should we expect anything to change?

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
When it comes to ballistic missile warnings, I’d rather err towards false positives over false negatives. Whomever made this mistake is highly unlikely to do so again. Throwing that away seems wasteful, ceteris paribus.
- rlanday 9y ago
  False positives and false negatives are both really bad. Now if there’s an ICBM launched at Hawaii this weekend, no one will believe it.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > False positives and false negatives are both really bad Everything surrounding nuclear war is bad. Choosing the lesser of two evils is the best we can do, given the domain. > Now if there’s an ICBM launched at Hawaii this weekend, no one will believe it No one? My collection from friends in Hawaii is they’re more prepared. Each of them have at least contemplated a plan and a few assembled go bags. In any case, Japan and Korea’s experiences with false alarms don’t support your claim that a few false negatives outweigh a single false negative. To be clear, I’m not saying false positives are okay. No error is better than error. But if we’re going to have errors, and we are, one kind is better than the other.
    - abstractbeliefs 9y ago
      > go bags where are they planning to go? It's a common mistake to make up "go bags" but forget they're only supposed to last you the 24 hours that it takes to get to a new refuge should your home/wherever else you're in become unsafe. I'm not sure how that works on Hawai'i after a nuclear missile attack, so I'd love to know what the plan is for such an event for these individuals.
      - klodolph 9y ago
        Plausible nuclear attack scenarios do not necessarily mean wiping the entire island off the map. Here is a fairly pessimistic scenario: http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=15000&lat=21.3069444&lng=-157.8583333&airburst=0&hob_ft=0&ff=68&zm=10 http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=15000&lat=21.3069444&... You can also choose "North Korean weapon tested in 2017" from the drop down menu, clear all effects, and click "Detonate". Also note the mountainous nature of Hawaiʻi.
      - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        > where are they planning to go? Shelter, basement...depends on your situation. I’m in New York and don’t have a go bag. I did look up our nearest shelter, though, and thought about what I’d grab (water, cat, knife, extra glasses, bacitracin, band-aids, battery + cable, nuts, kibble, phone, flashlight, duct tape and masks).
        abstractbeliefs 9y ago
        Right, and that's super reasonable! What a lot of people _do_ do however is make elaborate go bags but but then fail to prep their home, which is almost likely the best place to hunker down and stay.
- smsm42 9y ago
  True, but this also means stupid decisions have no consequences and people prone to making stupid decisions stay in places where they can cause harm with these decisions, or even promoted to places where they cause more harm. Now, everybody makes stupid decisions now and then, so single stupid decision is not necessary damning. But a systemic pattern of it should have consequences. Of course, government employment is a bizzaro world, so making it work there may be hard.
  - lolsal 9y ago
    Why was this decision stupid? The nightshift supervisor intended to run a drill at a very inopportune or unexpected time - this is a great time to test! This is the equivalent of testing edges or boundaries. The report says the person that sent the alarm did not hear the 'Exercise' portion of the message. It seems they were acting entirely rationally given the protocol they were expected to follow. It surely was a mistake and things can be improved, but I really don't think this was a 'stupid' decision.
    - smsm42 9y ago
      > this is a great time to test! This is the equivalent of testing edges or boundaries. True, if the test were properly prepared. If not, it's the equivalent of setting your own house on fire to test how the fire department works. Not a smart idea. Also not being able to cancel the alert immediately is the result of specific system design, which also was somebody's decision.
oconnor663 9y ago
Pressure to fire people isn't the same thing as pressure to fire the _right_ people. I think the former is more common.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  Pressure to fix problems is different from either one of those, though it may sometimes include the second.
pc86 9y ago
I hope one of your coworkers takes a screenshot of this comment for the next time you make a mistake based on miscommunication.
- colemannugent 9y ago
  If I was the manager in charge of a team that sends test nuclear missile alarms and my faulty process caused a miscommunication, which in turn created a mass panic, I should be fired. I don't think the employee who did as instructed and sent the alarm out is at fault, nor do I think they should be fired.
Cyberdog 9y ago
Fired? From a government job? Pssh. http://reason.com/reasontv/2018/01/26/remy-wedu-nagivafaka http://reason.com/reasontv/2018/01/26/remy-wedu-nagivafaka (NSFW language)
mixedmath 9y ago
I am reminded of the classic story from IBM. A junior developer makes a mistake that cost the company 10 million dollars. He walks into the office of Tom Watson, the CEO, expecting to get fired. “Fire you?” Mr Watson asked. “I just spent 10 million educating you.” Perhaps it is possible to enact some change through learning, rather than through firing.
- colemannugent 9y ago
  This was not a junior developer who accidentally rm -rf'd some server, this was a process failure that involved multiple people. In the IBM example, had that mistake been the end result of a faulty process designed by a manager, that manager should be fired or at least removed from a position to make process decisions. Whoever designed the process for sending out the alarms (likely a committee of sorts) should be held accountable for their gross failure. Firing is a efficient way to remove under-performing employees and ensure that remaining employees give the needed attention to the important problems. Maybe the employee who clicked the button to send the false alarm should be consulted when the alarm process is redesigned. I'm sure that they would be very familiar with what went wrong and how it could be improved.
Clubber 9y ago
You think government incompetence is bad, you should see corporate incompetence!
make3 9y ago
Firing people is not the only answer to errors. It depends on the intent of the person. If the person was neglectful or that it is proven that the person was being irreparably incompetent/lacking judgement, then sure. Likely, though, this is an error that is more reflexion of a problem in the UI and/or drill process, and investing resources in making sure these are improved would be a better way to prevent further mistakes.
AgentME 9y ago
If someone should get fired, it's the person who put "This is not a drill" in the auditory warning that tricked the operator, and the person who didn't put in a "We messed up" text alert button.
- colemannugent 9y ago
  Right, my point exactly. The employee who pushed the button was just doing as instructed.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

When it comes to ballistic missile warnings, I’d rather err towards false positives over false negatives. Whomever made this mistake is highly unlikely to do so again. Throwing that away seems wasteful, ceteris paribus.

rlanday 9y ago
False positives and false negatives are both really bad. Now if there’s an ICBM launched at Hawaii this weekend, no one will believe it.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > False positives and false negatives are both really bad Everything surrounding nuclear war is bad. Choosing the lesser of two evils is the best we can do, given the domain. > Now if there’s an ICBM launched at Hawaii this weekend, no one will believe it No one? My collection from friends in Hawaii is they’re more prepared. Each of them have at least contemplated a plan and a few assembled go bags. In any case, Japan and Korea’s experiences with false alarms don’t support your claim that a few false negatives outweigh a single false negative. To be clear, I’m not saying false positives are okay. No error is better than error. But if we’re going to have errors, and we are, one kind is better than the other.
  - abstractbeliefs 9y ago
    > go bags where are they planning to go? It's a common mistake to make up "go bags" but forget they're only supposed to last you the 24 hours that it takes to get to a new refuge should your home/wherever else you're in become unsafe. I'm not sure how that works on Hawai'i after a nuclear missile attack, so I'd love to know what the plan is for such an event for these individuals.
    - klodolph 9y ago
      Plausible nuclear attack scenarios do not necessarily mean wiping the entire island off the map. Here is a fairly pessimistic scenario: http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=15000&lat=21.3069444&lng=-157.8583333&airburst=0&hob_ft=0&ff=68&zm=10 http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=15000&lat=21.3069444&... You can also choose "North Korean weapon tested in 2017" from the drop down menu, clear all effects, and click "Detonate". Also note the mountainous nature of Hawaiʻi.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > where are they planning to go? Shelter, basement...depends on your situation. I’m in New York and don’t have a go bag. I did look up our nearest shelter, though, and thought about what I’d grab (water, cat, knife, extra glasses, bacitracin, band-aids, battery + cable, nuts, kibble, phone, flashlight, duct tape and masks).
      - abstractbeliefs 9y ago
        Right, and that's super reasonable! What a lot of people _do_ do however is make elaborate go bags but but then fail to prep their home, which is almost likely the best place to hunker down and stay.
smsm42 9y ago
True, but this also means stupid decisions have no consequences and people prone to making stupid decisions stay in places where they can cause harm with these decisions, or even promoted to places where they cause more harm. Now, everybody makes stupid decisions now and then, so single stupid decision is not necessary damning. But a systemic pattern of it should have consequences. Of course, government employment is a bizzaro world, so making it work there may be hard.
- lolsal 9y ago
  Why was this decision stupid? The nightshift supervisor intended to run a drill at a very inopportune or unexpected time - this is a great time to test! This is the equivalent of testing edges or boundaries. The report says the person that sent the alarm did not hear the 'Exercise' portion of the message. It seems they were acting entirely rationally given the protocol they were expected to follow. It surely was a mistake and things can be improved, but I really don't think this was a 'stupid' decision.
  - smsm42 9y ago
    > this is a great time to test! This is the equivalent of testing edges or boundaries. True, if the test were properly prepared. If not, it's the equivalent of setting your own house on fire to test how the fire department works. Not a smart idea. Also not being able to cancel the alert immediately is the result of specific system design, which also was somebody's decision.

oconnor663 9y ago

Pressure to fire people isn't the same thing as pressure to fire the _right_ people. I think the former is more common.

dragonwriter 9y ago
Pressure to fix problems is different from either one of those, though it may sometimes include the second.

pc86 9y ago

I hope one of your coworkers takes a screenshot of this comment for the next time you make a mistake based on miscommunication.

colemannugent 9y ago
If I was the manager in charge of a team that sends test nuclear missile alarms and my faulty process caused a miscommunication, which in turn created a mass panic, I should be fired. I don't think the employee who did as instructed and sent the alarm out is at fault, nor do I think they should be fired.

Cyberdog 9y ago

Fired? From a government job? Pssh. http://reason.com/reasontv/2018/01/26/remy-wedu-nagivafaka http://reason.com/reasontv/2018/01/26/remy-wedu-nagivafaka (NSFW language)

mixedmath 9y ago

I am reminded of the classic story from IBM. A junior developer makes a mistake that cost the company 10 million dollars. He walks into the office of Tom Watson, the CEO, expecting to get fired. “Fire you?” Mr Watson asked. “I just spent 10 million educating you.” Perhaps it is possible to enact some change through learning, rather than through firing.

colemannugent 9y ago
This was not a junior developer who accidentally rm -rf'd some server, this was a process failure that involved multiple people. In the IBM example, had that mistake been the end result of a faulty process designed by a manager, that manager should be fired or at least removed from a position to make process decisions. Whoever designed the process for sending out the alarms (likely a committee of sorts) should be held accountable for their gross failure. Firing is a efficient way to remove under-performing employees and ensure that remaining employees give the needed attention to the important problems. Maybe the employee who clicked the button to send the false alarm should be consulted when the alarm process is redesigned. I'm sure that they would be very familiar with what went wrong and how it could be improved.

Clubber 9y ago

You think government incompetence is bad, you should see corporate incompetence!

make3 9y ago

Firing people is not the only answer to errors. It depends on the intent of the person. If the person was neglectful or that it is proven that the person was being irreparably incompetent/lacking judgement, then sure. Likely, though, this is an error that is more reflexion of a problem in the UI and/or drill process, and investing resources in making sure these are improved would be a better way to prevent further mistakes.

AgentME 9y ago

If someone should get fired, it's the person who put "This is not a drill" in the auditory warning that tricked the operator, and the person who didn't put in a "We messed up" text alert button.

colemannugent 9y ago
Right, my point exactly. The employee who pushed the button was just doing as instructed.