4 ms·

Don't believe that shit. I worked through an agency once where I was the subcontractor for several projects. One time the account rep was lazy and sent me the

Don't believe that shit. I worked through an agency once where I was the subcontractor for several projects. One time the account rep was lazy and sent me the customer's contract and failed to remove the rate he was charging for my work. I was charging $150/hr. He was charging the client $400/hr. People will pay a premium for something they value. In that instance I actually won out eventually. It turns out the agency was really shitty at managing projects and that particular client got in touch with me directly. He agreed to pay me $400/hr if I gave him priority. I did, and he started referring me to other businesses who would also pay that rate. So don't kid yourself about how much people will pay. Edit: These clients weren't in the Bay Area.

JamesBarney 9y ago
What do you do? If you're willing to get someone to pay you 400/hr, I bet you're not billing/marketing yourself as a developer. And I'm not kidding myself. Most companies know they can get good devs for significantly less than 400/hr.
- ebendogan 9y ago
  This was about 10 years ago. The naive answer I would have given at time was: "I'm a software developer who builds ecommerce and CMS sites." And it's funny that you ask "What do you do?" At the time I had starting taking on projects from a friend who had been doing development contracting for about 4 years. One time when a client told me my proposal was priced too low and passed on my bid I was baffled. I told my friend about it and he asked me the same question, and I gave the above answer more or less. He corrected me and said "No! You're businessman enabling a national sales channel for a local or regional business who wants to increase their revenue." So never define your price by what you do, rather define it by what the value of thing is you're delivering to the client. This requires some research on your clients and a realignment of your thinking. When you're contracting as a developer, you have to start considering yourself as becoming a successful businessperson and not (just) a successful software engineer.
  - k__ 9y ago
    You're right, but it is still not easy. I started charing on a per week and per month basis, which was good because I stopped getting bothered with tiny projects. Also I could choose how much hours per week I was willing to work, as long as the clients are happy they don't care if it took me 40 hours that week or 20. This also increased my effective per hour payment and my work life ballance. It is also important to sell yourself with a higher value proposition. If you say "I'm a freelancing front-end dev who does JavaScript" they won't pay you as good as when you say "I'm a mobile consultant, who designs and implements apps", even if you do basically the same thing, people suddendly realize that you are a specialist and not some code monkey...
- odonnellryan 9y ago
  > And I'm not kidding myself. Most companies know they can get good devs for significantly less than 400/hr. You can get a great dev for much, much less than $400/hr. You're right. However, should I charge less than that to do a few hours of work for you? Absolutely not. If I'm doing a small project for a few hours for you I have to charge a lot to cover the business costs.
  - JamesBarney 9y ago
    Yeah, the projects I'm pricing out are usually 200-1400/hrs. I can totally see that rate for smaller projects. I imagine utilization rates are a lot harder to keep high with work that granular.
    - chirau 9y ago
      1400/hr ??? What do you do?
      - mhb 9y ago
        He's saying that's the length of the project. Not the rate.
      - reificator 9y ago
        I think they mean that that's the estimated time allotted for the project. What they're implying is that they charge less because of it, but if they worked shorter projects, they would likely charge more.
      - vosper 9y ago
        I know there's an international tax lawyer in SF charging $1250 hour. If you want the big bucks, law's one of the places to get it (provided, presumably, you work hard and are very smart).
        odonnellryan 9y ago
        There are people who specialize in arbitration who make 10k+/hr!
- pjmlp 9y ago
  In Germany, the cheapest rates for consulting usually go around 500 euros a day for the devs plus commission for the agencies.

JamesBarney 9y ago

What do you do? If you're willing to get someone to pay you 400/hr, I bet you're not billing/marketing yourself as a developer. And I'm not kidding myself. Most companies know they can get good devs for significantly less than 400/hr.

ebendogan 9y ago
This was about 10 years ago. The naive answer I would have given at time was: "I'm a software developer who builds ecommerce and CMS sites." And it's funny that you ask "What do you do?" At the time I had starting taking on projects from a friend who had been doing development contracting for about 4 years. One time when a client told me my proposal was priced too low and passed on my bid I was baffled. I told my friend about it and he asked me the same question, and I gave the above answer more or less. He corrected me and said "No! You're businessman enabling a national sales channel for a local or regional business who wants to increase their revenue." So never define your price by what you do, rather define it by what the value of thing is you're delivering to the client. This requires some research on your clients and a realignment of your thinking. When you're contracting as a developer, you have to start considering yourself as becoming a successful businessperson and not (just) a successful software engineer.
- k__ 9y ago
  You're right, but it is still not easy. I started charing on a per week and per month basis, which was good because I stopped getting bothered with tiny projects. Also I could choose how much hours per week I was willing to work, as long as the clients are happy they don't care if it took me 40 hours that week or 20. This also increased my effective per hour payment and my work life ballance. It is also important to sell yourself with a higher value proposition. If you say "I'm a freelancing front-end dev who does JavaScript" they won't pay you as good as when you say "I'm a mobile consultant, who designs and implements apps", even if you do basically the same thing, people suddendly realize that you are a specialist and not some code monkey...
odonnellryan 9y ago
> And I'm not kidding myself. Most companies know they can get good devs for significantly less than 400/hr. You can get a great dev for much, much less than $400/hr. You're right. However, should I charge less than that to do a few hours of work for you? Absolutely not. If I'm doing a small project for a few hours for you I have to charge a lot to cover the business costs.
- JamesBarney 9y ago
  Yeah, the projects I'm pricing out are usually 200-1400/hrs. I can totally see that rate for smaller projects. I imagine utilization rates are a lot harder to keep high with work that granular.
  - chirau 9y ago
    1400/hr ??? What do you do?
    - mhb 9y ago
      He's saying that's the length of the project. Not the rate.
    - reificator 9y ago
      I think they mean that that's the estimated time allotted for the project. What they're implying is that they charge less because of it, but if they worked shorter projects, they would likely charge more.
    - vosper 9y ago
      I know there's an international tax lawyer in SF charging $1250 hour. If you want the big bucks, law's one of the places to get it (provided, presumably, you work hard and are very smart).
      - odonnellryan 9y ago
        There are people who specialize in arbitration who make 10k+/hr!
pjmlp 9y ago
In Germany, the cheapest rates for consulting usually go around 500 euros a day for the devs plus commission for the agencies.