9 ms·

A surprising number of people don’t seem to understand how public libraries do collection management. Do you see new books when you go to the library? Does the

• JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Sometimes I think that policy abdicates the trust we have in libraries. I used to check out a little-used book, published in 1881, which was a history of our local town going back to its founding. With source material from the people who slept on cloaks under a tree before the first sod was turned. One day I looked for it, and it was gone. Probably victim to one of those book purges. And I was upset. Not that the book was valuable, and probably went for $1 at a jumble sale. But because it was irreplaceable. If our own library will not preserve books about our own local history, then who will? How can this source material ever, ever be reconstituted again? How can anybody in charge have thought this was a good idea?
  • trentmb 9y ago
    One of the first things I do when checking out a book from my library is look for an ebook version. If I can't find one, I use my flatbed scanner over the course of a week to make one and throw it up on the internet.
    • nannePOPI 9y ago
      you are doing what libraries should be doing, especially for books they intend to throw out. I mean, the US government has warehouses of data with the most inane things about people and then they can't manage to store books before throwing the physical copy out. Damn.
      • minikites 9y ago
        Who would fund this ongoing process?
        • beobab 9y ago
          Well, Google tried a while back, but got shut down over legal issues, if I recall correctly.
  • minikites 9y ago
    >If our own library will not preserve books about our own local history, then who will? How can this source material ever, ever be reconstituted again? How can anybody in charge have thought this was a good idea? Think about this the next time you see a ballot measure about cutting taxes.
    • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      Not sure that follows - they've built the library three times in my town, and every, every time at great cost and with no room for expansion. And they fill it with romance novels and juvenile fiction.
      • GlennS 9y ago
        Presumably because that's what most people actually read? Why should your particular taste in books be privileged over others?
        • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
          Those books are read by a subculture. Characterized by throw-away experiences and rapid turnover, who always want another book but never for long. I argue, that's not most of us. That's kids and bored stay-at-homes. I understand that libraries are struggling, but they've mutated by simply following a demographic into a hole. Instead of trying to be more relevant to the rest of us.
          • gowld 9y ago
            You must raelly love that one book, to have it define your entire philosophy around public libraries and the valuelessness of people who like other books.
          • minikites 9y ago
            You don't think your library keeps circulation statistics on each item and plans accordingly? It sounds an awful lot like you're personally insulted that your library caters to people who have different preferences than you.
  • snowwrestler 9y ago
    I understand why this is upsetting, but libraries are not historical societies. The solution to this is to work with your local historical society, or create one. Another option would be to make a connection with a local academic library (at a college or university in the area)--these often are more willing to store historical documents indefinitely. Finally, your town or county might have a museum that would be willing to accession an historical document. The caveat to all these is the same as for the public library: shelf space costs money, and budgets have limits. But sometimes a shift in emphasis is all you need to preserve old things and not worry about new things.
  • kaybe 9y ago
    This is the job of the national library. They keep every book printed in your nation for unlimited time. In the US that seems to be the Library of Congress, so they should have the book you miss. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress
    • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      It was a 'vanity press' book produced by an itinerant book publisher in the 1880's. And its listed! https://lccn.loc.gov/03003442 https://lccn.loc.gov/03003442 Still not the same in e-book form, as having the original bound pages from 135 years ago in my hands. But good to know.
      • kaybe 9y ago
        Does it have the plates? There is a long list of names at the end, maybe that's them. God sometimes I love the internet. I can only imagine how hard it was to do scientific research before, when the journals were all paper and you had to get the library to search articles for you. Now it takes me a few minutes to access anything. Or most of it at least. We have to work on that.
        • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
          Downloaded (finally) and looked thru all 1000 pages - no plates! Why wouldn't they scan those too? Just because its not amenable to OCR? Sigh.
      • yaur 9y ago
        Archive.org has lots of old books which I've used in family history research. It looks like they have 3 distinct scans of the one you linked.
  • mechagodzilla 9y ago
    Libraries frequently have dedicated local history collections, or work with local historical societies, although not always. Generally the mission of public libraries is to provide an actively used collection of resources to serve their community, not to act as a book repository to preserve human knowledge (particularly knowledge that doesn’t circulate). In our local system, there is one branch that is a designated book repository, and frequently keeps one copy a book that has been culled by all the other branches (and sometimes it is stored offsite, and takes a day or two to retrieve). People generally just have romantic notions about libraries (especially if they don’t really use them, but have strong opinions about what the collections should contain) that aren’t really compatible with serving the local community well.
    • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      I came to that conclusion, and quit going entirely for 10 years. I didn't need a sort of cut-rate bookstore with well-thumbed books in it - I can buy my own thank you. And not get badgered about returning them on schedule, with fines exceeding the cost of the book. I'm not actually sure if libraries as described, are doing anything at all for most of us. You see mostly kids and the homeless (or people looking like they are homeless) wandering in there.
      • Harvey-Specter 9y ago
        I don't feel the need to purchase every book I read just so it can sit on a shelf in my house when I'm done. So I use the public library unless it's a new release that I want to read right away.
        • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
          That is an issue - my house is full of books. Which somehow I don't really mind. So not an obstacle for me. What IS an obstacle is having to read a book on a schedule. Having available to read only new-ish books on popular subjects. Getting fined many times the cost of the book if I break the rules. Guilt when I mislay a book (I left a library book on an airplane once; the library never replaced it).
  • detaro 9y ago
    Each time someone has a "this one book" story I wonder if it wouldn't make sense for libraries to allow people to put a purge alert on books. If it gets removed, you get X days to come fetch it for a small fee. That of course does not help if the book got transferred somewhere else/stolen/lost/destroyed instead of being intentionally purged, so people nevertheless should create and keep copies. With an 1800s book, even publishing the copy would be legal!
    • mechagodzilla 9y ago
      In this particular case, it wouldn't be unusual if a book like that were too damaged to circulate and couldn't be replaced (if it were out of print). I think the lifetime of most books is measured in 10s of circs at most.
      • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
        It was in perfect condition, with old plates in the back of farmers a century dead, and old farms long gone. A complete index of every local person enlisting during the Civil War with their entire war record. Probably such good condition because it only got checked out every 5 years or so (other than me recently, every few months). The happy-ish ending is, I found a reprint by our local historical society from the 1970's. Without the plates. Took years of visits to local used-book shops and repeated requests to look out for a copy should one show up.
        • TaylorAlexander 9y ago
          Glad you found it! Can anyone tell me if this could have been found in the library of congress?
          • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
            https://lccn.loc.gov/03003442 https://lccn.loc.gov/03003442
    • gumby 9y ago
  • Cthulhu_ 9y ago
    It really depends on what the goal of that library is; is it a museum, aimed at preservation of e.g. local history, or is it a supplier of relevant books that operates more like a shop, which tries to keep a small inventory by optimizing for most frequently borrowed? I'm guessing that you could have both, but even then, space is limited. I'm sure - or, I'm hoping - that that particular book you mentioned is archived somewhere under museum conditions.
    • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      There's a library book shop where they flog the outgoing volumes. They either get sold in a month, or burned. Since I was the only one checking out that venerable tome, it's probably been burned.
  • stinkytaco 9y ago
    We weed according to the CREW method, which you can read about online [1]. Our first goal is material that is used, but we do have a local history collection and have some allowance in our collection for stuff that is of special interest. [1]: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ld/pubs/crew/index.html https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ld/pubs/crew/index.html EDIT: The other thing worth mentioning here is that well weeded collections are better used than poorly maintained ones. Though there is a subset of customers who want the "lived in" library, most like a continuous cycle of new and interesting content. When they see the same stuff each time they go, they stop being interested. A small public library in a town near mine still have numerous books on the OJ Simpson trial.
  • katastic 9y ago
    Actually, many/most libraries participate in exchange with other libraries. You may be able to request the book back (and you CAN request many books your library doesn't have)
  • johncarmichael3 9y ago
    This is probably one of the weirdest sentiments I've read in my entire life. I use the public library constantly as the place I go for quiet work and just to hang out, read, or study. And just for fun, they have lots of great events there, you can rent out meeting space for local groups/clubs. I really can't imagine not seeing the value of such a resource. First off, like the other person said, there are literally 3 scanned copies of this book you just referenced online.[1] Everyone has already said a lot that needs to be said, but I feel the need to point out, that a big part of being a member in your local libraries 'community served' is participating, which you can do actively at most libraries. My library now has Haskell and Clojure books on the shelves, because I actively participate in the library process. You can do this also, the library you are referencing (if I guessed correctly) has an form where you can set suggest book purchases[2], at my local library unless you are asking for something really really weird they will buy reasonable library user requests. The libraries curation is a community effort, and it won't reflect your needs if you don't make them apparent. Also, this local library in Iowa you were referencing and most local libraries have an interlibrary loan system for people just like you who need something they don't have there. I constantly use the service at my own local library to find anything I want and have it promptly sent right there to me. You could do this also for any books that you find rare or obscure that you need for a specific purpose. I've often used the service for books that are rare and prohibitively expensive. The Worldcat listings for the book you were looking for are numerous. Even shows the copy at the local historical society you mentioned. Library workers often check catalogues like Worldcat to see if they have the only copy of something or if something isnt archived previously prior to them throwing it out, according to the listings there are 4 microfilm versions of your book, and several listed OCR scans similar to the archive.org scans I'll assume. It is really weird of you to assume that any library would toss out a book without checking their listing against the global database. I hope that beats the horse til its quite dead enough to illustrate, that in the modern day there are very few books that can't be found if you understand the capabilities of our library infrastructure, and most of your other points are moot. I personally love it when the local library throws away great books, it gives me the opportunity to buy them, via a little store where they monetize their toss aways to fund the library instead of recycling them, maybe suggest this setup or a library book sale to your local library? [1] https://archive.org/details/historyofjohnson00iowa https://archive.org/details/historyofjohnson00iowa [2] https://www.icpl.org/suggest https://www.icpl.org/suggest
• deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
• onion2k 9y ago
  It's a free way to stock a new library. People would probably be better served by a dedicated, funded public library, but if that isn't forthcoming then this is a good "second best" approach. It's certainly better than no library.
• cableshaft 9y ago
  At least when you donate to the library, there's a chance they'll think one of those books is worth including in their circulation. Although I "donate" to Half-Priced Books (sell, but at a pittance), who would then donate what they don't sell to the library, who would then throw the book away, so I have an extra layer of abstraction in my process, and presumably HPB thinks they can sell a few of my books.
• ken 9y ago
  Everywhere I've lived, the public library has a massive annual book sale. Also, we keep building new branches -- at least 4 here in the past 20 years. I don't doubt that they also throw many in the trash, but given that there's a steady outflow of books back into the community, and that total shelf space is generally increasing, I don't see why it'd be illogical to believe that no books got dumped.
  • brewdad 9y ago
    My town hosts a sale twice a year. The materials are a combination of community donations and withdrawn from circulation items. Typically the sale lasts a week then on the Monday after the sale, teachers are allowed to claim whatever materials are worthy of classroom use. Everything else gets donated to a third party or trashed.
• Shivetya 9y ago
  A few donation centers near where I live no longer accept books because it is costing them money to dispose of them. Outside of books that might have special interest; I had a few proofs/advanced copies I have sold and even purchased. A few first prints of some novels are valuable as well but a library or other won't know that. In the end, if you don't need the space just keep them on display. If you have lots they work great as a sound break on a wall you have noise issues with
• jlarocco 9y ago
  Several libraries around around here will sell off old books to the public once or twice a year. They're great for picking up used books. But yeah, after that they go to the recycling bin or dumpster.
• katastic 9y ago
  That reminds me of a slightly off-topic story. My college library had multiple floors. They decided with their grand collective genius, to replace the entire first floor with a knockoff Starbucks "cafe", and tons of Apple computers and tablets (99% of which were just used for Facebook). They moved the good books upstairs, but any book that didn't make the cut, was literally thrown out. They announced it and you could see a generation gap. I was almost in my 30's. The 18 year olds didn't seem to mind (though some did, I'm not bashing 18 year olds). But anyone my age or older, was appalled. They wouldn't let you buy the books. They wouldn't even let you just take them. They had to be burned. BURNED. Some of the older students (30+) literally said "Fuck it." and went out of their way to smuggle books out of the library past the theft detectors. They all had their different (strong!) personal reasons for "protecting history" or "not being apart of burning books." As long as people like that exist--people willing to fight stupid decisions by people at the top--I think we're going to be okay in the long run. And that reminds me of working for Sam's Club for 5+ years. We threw out so much food that was "out of date" when there were literally homeless people half a mile away. We kept telling management it was wrong but they said "We can't give it away because of liability reasons." (Which I think is bullshit because you can make someone sign away their liability. And Good Samaritan laws exist.) But the real proof that it was bullshit was 10 years later, they now... actually give away day-old food to the local food banks. (Now I'm getting flashbacks of Elaine giving away Muffin stumps to the Foodbank. I should stop now before I derail into another dimension.)
• kev009 9y ago
  Some anecdotes: I spent $30k on computer and electronic engineering books in the past 6 months. Yes really. A lot of them were those culled library books sold by wholesalers on Amazon and library benevolent foundations. There is still a long list of ISBNs (and some IBM/AT&T/standard body private publications) I'd pay a ton of money to buy but cannot because there is nowhere to buy them; the copies are not on any digital market place and/or have largely been destroyed. The issue is books have an inherent physical logistical problem. A city library has a relatively small demographic; the high hit rate books will be relatively easy to stock but getting the long tail right will be nearly impossible. I don't know the right solution to that, but something akin to the netflix DVD distribution model might be a better fit going forward for libraries. Most people can't afford to build a private library like I did. As for my own justification, I _love_ physical books. I much prefer it to reading on a screen or even epaper. It is a visceral context switch to go "offline" and stare at paper vs any digital system. There are other things that aren't necessarily apparent as well -- press printing a book is an expensive proposition. Therefore, getting the typesetting, copy editing, paper quality etc done right the first time is paramount. I just don't see that on most epublication. Even press printings that are sent for epublishing more often than not look completely haphazard in page layout.