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> The students were split into two groups — one was assigned to chat with Woebot over two weeks, while the other was directed to read an e-book about depressio

by spuz 9y ago

> The students were split into two groups — one was assigned to chat with Woebot over two weeks, while the other was directed to read an e-book about depression. Unlike the students in the e-book group, those using Woebot said they saw a significant reduction in their depressive symptoms. It sounds interesting. It also reminds me of ELIZA[1] a chat bot designed in the 60s to demonstrate the superficiality of human conversation which ended up being a surprisingly effective therapist to its users. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

yathern 9y ago
I wish there were a control group - it could very well be that reading an e-book about depression can cause a regression in depressive symptoms.
- phkahler 9y ago
  So can seeing a therapist.
- sjg007 9y ago
  They do but the relief can be short lived. A therapist is basically an expert who can put into practice what you need to do to feel less depressed.
- jdietrich 9y ago
  We've run quite a number of randomised controlled trials on self-help books. They work. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22215865 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22215865
dhimes 9y ago
Eliza was awesome. I actually built a variation for Study Swami- and threw in a little CBT for good measure. I intended to update it for more scholarly issues (planning projects, studying certain types of content) but instructors/tutors pushed back a bit worried that it's too distracting for the students. EDIT: I later learned that I'm friends with Weizenbaum's grand-niece (or something like that).
azinman2 9y ago
Clearly you haven’t tried Woebot. There is no free form dialog. It’s basically a scripted book plus videos that uses the UI of chat but gives you no freedom of expression.
- spuz 9y ago
  No I haven't tried it. I am making the assumption that a chatbot allows you to input freeform text for it to analyse and process? Is that not how it works?
  - fragmede 9y ago
    That's the dream, unfortunately, the limitations on the analysis and processing part were immediately apparent when I tried messaging Woebot (paraphrased): Woebot: Write a negative thought Me: Testing abc Woebot: Would you like to work on Testing abc? Or especially worse for someone who is so hurt about being ignored that they're seeking counseling via a bot online, is being ignored by a bot: Woebot: Can you think of a time when... Me: Well, so... Woebot: *Blindly replies with the next line in the script.*
zeptomu 9y ago
It's also worth noting that the creator, Joseph Weizenbaum, was shocked that the software was suggested as a replacement for real psychiatrists - so history repeating itself? Quote from your wiki-source: > Lay responses to ELIZA were disturbing to Weizenbaum and motivated him to write his book Computer Power and Human Reason: From Judgment to Calculation, in which he explains the limits of computers, as he wants to make clear in people's minds his opinion that the anthropomorphic views of computers are just a reduction of the human being and any life form for that matter. [...]

by spuz 9y ago

yathern 9y ago

I wish there were a control group - it could very well be that reading an e-book about depression can cause a regression in depressive symptoms.

phkahler 9y ago
So can seeing a therapist.
sjg007 9y ago
They do but the relief can be short lived. A therapist is basically an expert who can put into practice what you need to do to feel less depressed.
jdietrich 9y ago
We've run quite a number of randomised controlled trials on self-help books. They work. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22215865 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22215865

dhimes 9y ago

Eliza was awesome. I actually built a variation for Study Swami- and threw in a little CBT for good measure. I intended to update it for more scholarly issues (planning projects, studying certain types of content) but instructors/tutors pushed back a bit worried that it's too distracting for the students. EDIT: I later learned that I'm friends with Weizenbaum's grand-niece (or something like that).

azinman2 9y ago

Clearly you haven’t tried Woebot. There is no free form dialog. It’s basically a scripted book plus videos that uses the UI of chat but gives you no freedom of expression.

spuz 9y ago
No I haven't tried it. I am making the assumption that a chatbot allows you to input freeform text for it to analyse and process? Is that not how it works?
- fragmede 9y ago
  That's the dream, unfortunately, the limitations on the analysis and processing part were immediately apparent when I tried messaging Woebot (paraphrased): Woebot: Write a negative thought Me: Testing abc Woebot: Would you like to work on Testing abc? Or especially worse for someone who is so hurt about being ignored that they're seeking counseling via a bot online, is being ignored by a bot: Woebot: Can you think of a time when... Me: Well, so... Woebot: *Blindly replies with the next line in the script.*

zeptomu 9y ago

It's also worth noting that the creator, Joseph Weizenbaum, was shocked that the software was suggested as a replacement for real psychiatrists - so history repeating itself? Quote from your wiki-source: > Lay responses to ELIZA were disturbing to Weizenbaum and motivated him to write his book Computer Power and Human Reason: From Judgment to Calculation, in which he explains the limits of computers, as he wants to make clear in people's minds his opinion that the anthropomorphic views of computers are just a reduction of the human being and any life form for that matter. [...]