4 ms·

Simple answer - no money in osx, it's all in ios.

by gkgicccj 9y ago

chatmasta 9y ago
Which is funny because you can't build an iOS app without OS X (err.. MacOS*)
- pvinis 9y ago
  For now. (?)
- wlll 9y ago
  I wrote this in another comment, but it's relevant here: It wouldn't surprise me if in the next few years Apple slowly winds down all things Mac. Marketing, updates, upgrades etc. and while doing that makes XCode Windows compatible.
  - chatmasta 9y ago
    Hopefully Linux compatible comes with that. I’d be pretty surprised though. The Mac line may not be Apple’s biggest seller, but it’s not like it’s losing them money. It’s a huge revenue stream. Also don’t underestimate the impact of the fact that every employee at apple uses Mac.
    - wlll 9y ago
      I'd like to see Linux support, but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't happen unfortunately. > The Mac line may not be Apple’s biggest seller, but it’s not like it’s losing them money. It’s a huge revenue stream. Totally, though one that's only getting smaller as a % of their revenue. At some point it might start to seem like a distraction. I've seen companies drop profitable products before, even those that were a larger % of overall business than Mac is to Apple, so it's not clear that it won't happen. I hope it doesn't, but it might :) > Also don’t underestimate the impact of the fact that every employee at apple uses Mac. It will be interesting to see what happens here. Could be an early warning sign of things to come.
smt88 9y ago
Then why does iOS 11 break so much stuff? If the answer is simple, it probably has to do with culture/QA. But I don't think it's that simple.
- scarface74 9y ago
  It doesn't matter as much if an iOS upgrade breaks stuff as a Mac OS upgrade. The iOS market is so strong that developers rush to make their software compatible. Within a month of the iPhone X introduction I had dozens of apps with updated that just said they were updating to support it better. Mac updates are a lot slower if ever. Fortunately, the only apps I really care about besides the browser are developer related tools. Those are usually updated relatively fast on Macs and Windows.
  - smt88 9y ago
    iOS 11 didn't break things because of API updates. It literally broke phones. I had three friends switch to Pixel because of iOS 11 bugs, like not being able to make calls. Apple told them all to upgrade to a new iPhone.
    - scarface74 9y ago
      If that was a widespread problem. It would have been another "gate". Like "BatteryGate", "AntennaGate", and "Bendgate". There hasn't been a "Bendgate". There also haven't been widespread reports that Apple told people that couldn't make calls on there phones to buy another phone - if that were true there would be yet another class action suit. The lawyers would have been salivating.
gargravarr 9y ago
Tragically I think this is the answer - all of Apple's talented developers have most likely shunted over to iOS and the quality of macOS has been left to rot. What's infuriating is that High Sierra, as referenced in its naming scheme, is supposed to be minor improvements on top of plain Sierra, but it breaks so many things that I am drawn to compare it to Vista - half-baked, unfinished, should never have been released. And yet Apple have previously managed good releases like this - Snow Leopard (my all-time favourite OS) and Mountain Lion were successful. High Sierra is a train wreck. I am holding all company laptops back from upgrading because I can't trust the thing.
- BoorishBears 9y ago
  I hear this all the time but I’m not sure it’s true. iOS is in the exact same place. The number of weird bugs and subtlety broken interactions I’ve seen has been growing exponentially. Even as I type this my Safari address bar is pushed halfway into my status bar, making them overlap. A couple of weeks back my phone became unusable in the middle of the Everglades as I was relying on it to get back to my hotel. A message notification got stuck on screen and it blocked input with anything system related. I couldn’t even turn it off because the strange new reset procedure isn’t exactly discoverable and the normal slider couldn’t be intersected with! Those are just anecdotes, but it happens often enough I’m sure most users of iOS 11 will be able to identify that this is just par for the course on iOS these days.
  - gargravarr 9y ago
    I'm not saying the developers actually are moving, or would make any difference to buggy software if they did, but Apple can shift iDevices by the shipload, faster than they can build them. They've become a phone company first and foremost, and it feels like their computer lineup is suffering as a result. As such, I can easily believe that developers see no future in macOS and are willingly moving over to iOS.
- rahoulb 9y ago
  I suspect the answer is more that Apple refuses to grow its teams beyond a certain size. It's not a lack of money or talent; rather they value a certain way of working (look at all the stuff about collaboration in the new building). But the size of the company and product range has pushed those teams beyond their limits.

Simple answer - no money in osx, it's all in ios.

chatmasta 9y ago

Which is funny because you can't build an iOS app without OS X (err.. MacOS*)

pvinis 9y ago
For now. (?)
wlll 9y ago
I wrote this in another comment, but it's relevant here: It wouldn't surprise me if in the next few years Apple slowly winds down all things Mac. Marketing, updates, upgrades etc. and while doing that makes XCode Windows compatible.
- chatmasta 9y ago
  Hopefully Linux compatible comes with that. I’d be pretty surprised though. The Mac line may not be Apple’s biggest seller, but it’s not like it’s losing them money. It’s a huge revenue stream. Also don’t underestimate the impact of the fact that every employee at apple uses Mac.
  - wlll 9y ago
    I'd like to see Linux support, but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't happen unfortunately. > The Mac line may not be Apple’s biggest seller, but it’s not like it’s losing them money. It’s a huge revenue stream. Totally, though one that's only getting smaller as a % of their revenue. At some point it might start to seem like a distraction. I've seen companies drop profitable products before, even those that were a larger % of overall business than Mac is to Apple, so it's not clear that it won't happen. I hope it doesn't, but it might :) > Also don’t underestimate the impact of the fact that every employee at apple uses Mac. It will be interesting to see what happens here. Could be an early warning sign of things to come.

smt88 9y ago

Then why does iOS 11 break so much stuff? If the answer is simple, it probably has to do with culture/QA. But I don't think it's that simple.

scarface74 9y ago
It doesn't matter as much if an iOS upgrade breaks stuff as a Mac OS upgrade. The iOS market is so strong that developers rush to make their software compatible. Within a month of the iPhone X introduction I had dozens of apps with updated that just said they were updating to support it better. Mac updates are a lot slower if ever. Fortunately, the only apps I really care about besides the browser are developer related tools. Those are usually updated relatively fast on Macs and Windows.
- smt88 9y ago
  iOS 11 didn't break things because of API updates. It literally broke phones. I had three friends switch to Pixel because of iOS 11 bugs, like not being able to make calls. Apple told them all to upgrade to a new iPhone.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    If that was a widespread problem. It would have been another "gate". Like "BatteryGate", "AntennaGate", and "Bendgate". There hasn't been a "Bendgate". There also haven't been widespread reports that Apple told people that couldn't make calls on there phones to buy another phone - if that were true there would be yet another class action suit. The lawyers would have been salivating.

gargravarr 9y ago

Tragically I think this is the answer - all of Apple's talented developers have most likely shunted over to iOS and the quality of macOS has been left to rot. What's infuriating is that High Sierra, as referenced in its naming scheme, is supposed to be minor improvements on top of plain Sierra, but it breaks so many things that I am drawn to compare it to Vista - half-baked, unfinished, should never have been released. And yet Apple have previously managed good releases like this - Snow Leopard (my all-time favourite OS) and Mountain Lion were successful. High Sierra is a train wreck. I am holding all company laptops back from upgrading because I can't trust the thing.

BoorishBears 9y ago
I hear this all the time but I’m not sure it’s true. iOS is in the exact same place. The number of weird bugs and subtlety broken interactions I’ve seen has been growing exponentially. Even as I type this my Safari address bar is pushed halfway into my status bar, making them overlap. A couple of weeks back my phone became unusable in the middle of the Everglades as I was relying on it to get back to my hotel. A message notification got stuck on screen and it blocked input with anything system related. I couldn’t even turn it off because the strange new reset procedure isn’t exactly discoverable and the normal slider couldn’t be intersected with! Those are just anecdotes, but it happens often enough I’m sure most users of iOS 11 will be able to identify that this is just par for the course on iOS these days.
- gargravarr 9y ago
  I'm not saying the developers actually are moving, or would make any difference to buggy software if they did, but Apple can shift iDevices by the shipload, faster than they can build them. They've become a phone company first and foremost, and it feels like their computer lineup is suffering as a result. As such, I can easily believe that developers see no future in macOS and are willingly moving over to iOS.
rahoulb 9y ago
I suspect the answer is more that Apple refuses to grow its teams beyond a certain size. It's not a lack of money or talent; rather they value a certain way of working (look at all the stuff about collaboration in the new building). But the size of the company and product range has pushed those teams beyond their limits.