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Edit: I want to make my distinction clearer - I don't SPECIFICALLY target/show my site to EU citizens, I show it to everyone, unbiased, the same way. But, if EU

by neya 9y ago

Edit: I want to make my distinction clearer - I don't SPECIFICALLY target/show my site to EU citizens, I show it to everyone, unbiased, the same way. But, if EU citizens SPECIFICALLY visiting my site have a problem with the way it works (cookies, tracking, etc.), then they should simply stop visiting it instead of their government trying to bully us webmasters. What bothers me the most is, as a non-European citizen of a country that has nothing to do with Europe, I'm expected to modify the source code of my website to adhere to their laws, which aren't from my country. The important part: WWW is a global platform to showcase your service/work globally. I have a problem because one entity thinks the global service needs to be customised specifically for them. How about "don't like it, don't visit it?" Simply put, I don't want to get into an argument whether this GDPR is bad/good, but, I know that I didn't vote for or against this and it's not in my jurisdiction. I don't belong to Europe either, so what are you going to do? This is what I'm going to do: I'm going to block access to my services to anyone based in Europe. It WILL affect our cash flow in the long run, but, I'm tired of governments that I don't care about expect me to follow some nonsense I have no part of under the guise of compliance on a global platform that is WWW ("WORLD WIDE Web"). I think, if enough webmasters fight back, then they'll realise. And the only way is to block your services to EU. As a cherry on top, I'll even put up a redirect notice stating: "Sorry, you belong to the EU and we're not going to follow your laws. Please fight back with your GOV if you wish to have access to our services. This has nothing to do with us." So, what are you going to do? edit: clarity

bonesss 9y ago
> I'm going to block access to my services to anyone based in Europe... I'm tired of governments that I don't care about expect me to follow some nonsense I have no part of under the guise of compliance. Ever been on a plane? ... Used a cellphone outside your own borders? ... Eaten a beautifully ripened imported cheese along with a stunning imported wine? Put your money where your mouth is: boycott all benefits of transnational cooperation and international legislation. NGOs are how a lot of the capitalism on this planet gets done. 'Compliance' is how we protect our businesses and consumers against fraud and mislabeled products. Functionally "compliance" is a judicial equivalent of an API... All I'm reading is "Why do I gotta use Googles APIs? I wanna make my own APIs! No more API use, no matter the costs to my customers, because I'm sick of giant oligarchies demanding I comply to their demands! What are you gonna do?" They'll stop doing business with you, that's what. And shrug about it. Your website will be replaced with one from Romania, and you'll probably develop a deep sense of irony if you feel they've infringed on your IP in any way and want to sue them... because all that stuff is based on 'compliance' too.
- neya 9y ago
  Sorry, wrong example. When I take a plane to some country I will follow their rules, protocols, yes. But imagine, I had a museum that can be accessed world wide, instantly and some guy from a specific country/region had a problem with one of my showcases in the museum, do you expect me to alter my museum for this guy and his groupies so they'll be happy?
  - bonesss 9y ago
    Sorry, incorrect rebuttal. Whenever you or anything you ship touches an commercial airliner you enter a globally coordinated network of non-governmental compliance and multi-government regulation spanning every aspect of every device and every protocol. The only reason you CAN take planes to other countries is this international "compliance". Where "you" had to do exactly what "we" have said, because if "you" don't then "you" get to be excluded from global trade. I have already addressed your hypothetical in my comment... There is no "expect", only business reality. The same solution as above, and the same irony, applies.
joepjp 9y ago
Imagine you’re living in a country which allows you to sell drugs freely, then it’s clear that you can sell them in a country where they are banned. I don’t really think this is different regarding privacy. You have to obey to the law where you run your business. It’s up to you wether you change your business or leave the market. Your argument that it’s weird that you have to “adhere to their laws” is a fallacy. Your decision to leave the market is up to you.
- neya 9y ago
  While I agree with most of what you said, where my perspective differs is this - The WWW is called the World Wide Web for a reason. A platform to showcase your service globally, without borders. Suddenly, the EU thinks "Oh, if you have a website that is accessible from the EU, then you need to display X". Sorry, then what was the point of WWW? And more important, why should I update my code? It costs me money and you're not paying me, obviously (you = GOV). Why don't you ask your citizens to stop visiting websites that track them? I showcase my service on a global platform. Don't like it? Don't visit it.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    The EU didn't start this. I may remind you of the Megaupload case, where a German is under arrest in New Zealand for breaking US law by offering his site to American visitors. The US has created the precedence for enforcing local law internationally during both the piracy enforcement cases, and the NSA cases. As result, it is just expected that other countries will use this tool for their own purposes — in this case, the EU is using it even for ghe benefit of the people. Something you can't say about the use the US made of it.
  - kbart 9y ago
    World Wide Web as a borderless, lawless place is only a long gone dream of cyber anarchists of early nineties.
sveme 9y ago
If your website is of any use, they will be copied from an EU-internal website that adheres to local legislation. If you subsequently tried to sue according to your country's legal concepts, whatever, why should they adhere to another country's legal requirements?

by neya 9y ago

bonesss 9y ago

> I'm going to block access to my services to anyone based in Europe... I'm tired of governments that I don't care about expect me to follow some nonsense I have no part of under the guise of compliance. Ever been on a plane? ... Used a cellphone outside your own borders? ... Eaten a beautifully ripened imported cheese along with a stunning imported wine? Put your money where your mouth is: boycott all benefits of transnational cooperation and international legislation. NGOs are how a lot of the capitalism on this planet gets done. 'Compliance' is how we protect our businesses and consumers against fraud and mislabeled products. Functionally "compliance" is a judicial equivalent of an API... All I'm reading is "Why do I gotta use Googles APIs? I wanna make my own APIs! No more API use, no matter the costs to my customers, because I'm sick of giant oligarchies demanding I comply to their demands! What are you gonna do?" They'll stop doing business with you, that's what. And shrug about it. Your website will be replaced with one from Romania, and you'll probably develop a deep sense of irony if you feel they've infringed on your IP in any way and want to sue them... because all that stuff is based on 'compliance' too.

neya 9y ago
Sorry, wrong example. When I take a plane to some country I will follow their rules, protocols, yes. But imagine, I had a museum that can be accessed world wide, instantly and some guy from a specific country/region had a problem with one of my showcases in the museum, do you expect me to alter my museum for this guy and his groupies so they'll be happy?
- bonesss 9y ago
  Sorry, incorrect rebuttal. Whenever you or anything you ship touches an commercial airliner you enter a globally coordinated network of non-governmental compliance and multi-government regulation spanning every aspect of every device and every protocol. The only reason you CAN take planes to other countries is this international "compliance". Where "you" had to do exactly what "we" have said, because if "you" don't then "you" get to be excluded from global trade. I have already addressed your hypothetical in my comment... There is no "expect", only business reality. The same solution as above, and the same irony, applies.

joepjp 9y ago

Imagine you’re living in a country which allows you to sell drugs freely, then it’s clear that you can sell them in a country where they are banned. I don’t really think this is different regarding privacy. You have to obey to the law where you run your business. It’s up to you wether you change your business or leave the market. Your argument that it’s weird that you have to “adhere to their laws” is a fallacy. Your decision to leave the market is up to you.

neya 9y ago
While I agree with most of what you said, where my perspective differs is this - The WWW is called the World Wide Web for a reason. A platform to showcase your service globally, without borders. Suddenly, the EU thinks "Oh, if you have a website that is accessible from the EU, then you need to display X". Sorry, then what was the point of WWW? And more important, why should I update my code? It costs me money and you're not paying me, obviously (you = GOV). Why don't you ask your citizens to stop visiting websites that track them? I showcase my service on a global platform. Don't like it? Don't visit it.
- kuschku 9y ago
  The EU didn't start this. I may remind you of the Megaupload case, where a German is under arrest in New Zealand for breaking US law by offering his site to American visitors. The US has created the precedence for enforcing local law internationally during both the piracy enforcement cases, and the NSA cases. As result, it is just expected that other countries will use this tool for their own purposes — in this case, the EU is using it even for ghe benefit of the people. Something you can't say about the use the US made of it.
- kbart 9y ago
  World Wide Web as a borderless, lawless place is only a long gone dream of cyber anarchists of early nineties.

sveme 9y ago

If your website is of any use, they will be copied from an EU-internal website that adheres to local legislation. If you subsequently tried to sue according to your country's legal concepts, whatever, why should they adhere to another country's legal requirements?