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My experience, having dealt with successful people who were also born rich, is that they often legitimately feel that they are self-made. Because the truth is t

My experience, having dealt with successful people who were also born rich, is that they often legitimately feel that they are self-made. Because the truth is that no matter how privileged you are, you do still have to put the work in if you want to be successful. It is true that rich people have much better safety nets, but being successful will always take at least some level of hard work. It's difficult to have the perspective it takes to admit that your success may be more due to a privileged starting position and luck than solely the hard work, especially when it's so easy to claim all your success is self-made and the hero worship of self made people in the United States

jdtang13 9y ago
I attended a talk hosted by a wealthy founder who was born into privilege, and he said something like this: "Startups are really hard. You need to use every card that you've been dealt in order to succeed."
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  That's what meritocracy is, really. It's a system that rewards the most physically fit, the most genetically endowed, the people with the most resource rich support system, etc. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but the fact that we're conditioned to think that a non level playing field is bad no matter what (vs a societal expectation that those with the most must give back the most), asking with a fetishistic of monetary success, really warps our outward facing behavior.
  - cimmanom 9y ago
    How is a strong support system that one was born into reflective of "merit"?
  - BoiledCabbage 9y ago
    > the people with the most resource rich support system, etc. I'm not sure you even realize, but that's the exact opposite of the definition of meritocracy.
    - AstralStorm 9y ago
      Specifically, definition of oligarchy.
    - hkmurakami 9y ago
      No that is what a meritocracy is as we have it, and it is broken. Meritocracy rewards those who do the most. But those who can do the most are those who are the most well endowed. This is separate from an even more perverse system where those who don't do the most are rewarded the most.
      - BoiledCabbage 9y ago
        I'm not gonna go ahead and paste a dictionary definition here, but a meritocracy is structured on talent and ability as opposed to class privilege or wealth. I believe you are misunderstanding the definition of a meritocracy.
- hyperdimension 9y ago
  Honest question: Are you mentioning this because you agree with him (that startups require a lot from anyone), or because you want to contrast that not everyone "has as many cards" as that founder?
  - jdtang13 9y ago
    I only mention this quote because it sheds some light on how a very privileged person might still legitimately think of themselves as struggling and suffering when making a startup.
    - hyperdimension 9y ago
      I always think of everyone having their own personal spectrum, ranging (crudely) from the most positive experience they've had, to the worst. Any new situation encountered by someone is judged relatively, based on their own personal spectrum. My point being that someone can honestly believe they are suffering at least relatively, if not absolutely. Each person has their own level of experience they consider "suffering".
lookACamel 9y ago
I think the point is that there's a difference between simply "doing hard-work" and "self-made". The first is about what you did, the latter is what you think others did for/with you.
- stochastic_monk 9y ago
  As Eminem says, “Never asked nobody for shit.” If you can’t say that, you’re not truly self-made. The “rags-to-riches” tale has to actually be rags to riches. There’s still doing great work and making something of yourself, but it’s very different when you do it from scratch.
  - BMFX 9y ago
    The problem with that, you are always asking someone todo something. I am not disagreeing that some people have a stronger safety net, but everyone has to ask somebody for something to succeed. Very rarely can you just succeed without outside influence. Be it a random connection or someone you grew up living next door to.
    - stochastic_monk 9y ago
      I agree that you need help, but I think the difference is not having a personal safety net and “earning” help from others by doing good work, not having it handed to you by default. There’s always chance, but I see a distinction.

jdtang13 9y ago

I attended a talk hosted by a wealthy founder who was born into privilege, and he said something like this: "Startups are really hard. You need to use every card that you've been dealt in order to succeed."

hkmurakami 9y ago
That's what meritocracy is, really. It's a system that rewards the most physically fit, the most genetically endowed, the people with the most resource rich support system, etc. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but the fact that we're conditioned to think that a non level playing field is bad no matter what (vs a societal expectation that those with the most must give back the most), asking with a fetishistic of monetary success, really warps our outward facing behavior.
- cimmanom 9y ago
  How is a strong support system that one was born into reflective of "merit"?
- BoiledCabbage 9y ago
  > the people with the most resource rich support system, etc. I'm not sure you even realize, but that's the exact opposite of the definition of meritocracy.
  - AstralStorm 9y ago
    Specifically, definition of oligarchy.
  - hkmurakami 9y ago
    No that is what a meritocracy is as we have it, and it is broken. Meritocracy rewards those who do the most. But those who can do the most are those who are the most well endowed. This is separate from an even more perverse system where those who don't do the most are rewarded the most.
    - BoiledCabbage 9y ago
      I'm not gonna go ahead and paste a dictionary definition here, but a meritocracy is structured on talent and ability as opposed to class privilege or wealth. I believe you are misunderstanding the definition of a meritocracy.
hyperdimension 9y ago
Honest question: Are you mentioning this because you agree with him (that startups require a lot from anyone), or because you want to contrast that not everyone "has as many cards" as that founder?
- jdtang13 9y ago
  I only mention this quote because it sheds some light on how a very privileged person might still legitimately think of themselves as struggling and suffering when making a startup.
  - hyperdimension 9y ago
    I always think of everyone having their own personal spectrum, ranging (crudely) from the most positive experience they've had, to the worst. Any new situation encountered by someone is judged relatively, based on their own personal spectrum. My point being that someone can honestly believe they are suffering at least relatively, if not absolutely. Each person has their own level of experience they consider "suffering".

lookACamel 9y ago

I think the point is that there's a difference between simply "doing hard-work" and "self-made". The first is about what you did, the latter is what you think others did for/with you.

stochastic_monk 9y ago
As Eminem says, “Never asked nobody for shit.” If you can’t say that, you’re not truly self-made. The “rags-to-riches” tale has to actually be rags to riches. There’s still doing great work and making something of yourself, but it’s very different when you do it from scratch.
- BMFX 9y ago
  The problem with that, you are always asking someone todo something. I am not disagreeing that some people have a stronger safety net, but everyone has to ask somebody for something to succeed. Very rarely can you just succeed without outside influence. Be it a random connection or someone you grew up living next door to.
  - stochastic_monk 9y ago
    I agree that you need help, but I think the difference is not having a personal safety net and “earning” help from others by doing good work, not having it handed to you by default. There’s always chance, but I see a distinction.