3 ms·

It used to be that solar panels never paid for themselves, then it was 20 years to break even. Now, I think, we're down to 5 years. Solar panels are getting ch

It used to be that solar panels never paid for themselves, then it was 20 years to break even. Now, I think, we're down to 5 years. Solar panels are getting cheaper and cheaper, and they definitely have a positive ROI now. And there are huge solar farms being built all over the world. I'm pretty sure they did the math before investing millions of dollars.

maoistinquisitr 9y ago
If you can highlight a plant that is not a "tax farm" I would be interested to read about it. "we get a tax credit if we build a lot of wind farms. That's the only reason to build them. They don't make sense without the tax credit." --Warren Buffet This illustrates the reality of every "renewable" facility I've heard of to date. If the business case has changed just now, that's great and I look forward to the future. But most of what I've seen has been very silly industry propaganda.
- politician 9y ago
  Is the 40GW of production in China a "tax farm"? Your argument that "solar is a gimmick because tax subsidies" seems flawed when international counterexamples are considered.
  - maoistinquisitr 9y ago
    > Is the 40GW of production in China a "tax farm"? According to everything I can find online the answer is a clear Yes?
    - phil248 9y ago
      What you call a "tax farm" is traditionally called industrial policy, and it has an exceptionally good track record.
- bufferoverflow 9y ago
  Some areas have produced cheaper energy without subsidies as far as 2014. See pages 2-4. It's way better now, since the solar prices went down so much. https://www.deutschebank.nl/nl/docs/Solar_-_2014_Outlook_Let_the_Second_Gold_Rush_Begin.pdf https://www.deutschebank.nl/nl/docs/Solar_-_2014_Outlook_Let... And to answer your question about non-tax-farm, I don't know. If the government gives a subsidy, why wouldn't you take it even if you're profitable without it? Subsidies alone don't prove that the solar farms are not profitable.
- phil248 9y ago
  It's almost as if initial government investment has allowed the technology to advance to the point that it no longer requires subsidy to be cost effective. Kind of like every other major industrial and technological breakthrough over the last 100 years.

maoistinquisitr 9y ago

If you can highlight a plant that is not a "tax farm" I would be interested to read about it. "we get a tax credit if we build a lot of wind farms. That's the only reason to build them. They don't make sense without the tax credit." --Warren Buffet This illustrates the reality of every "renewable" facility I've heard of to date. If the business case has changed just now, that's great and I look forward to the future. But most of what I've seen has been very silly industry propaganda.

politician 9y ago
Is the 40GW of production in China a "tax farm"? Your argument that "solar is a gimmick because tax subsidies" seems flawed when international counterexamples are considered.
- maoistinquisitr 9y ago
  > Is the 40GW of production in China a "tax farm"? According to everything I can find online the answer is a clear Yes?
  - phil248 9y ago
    What you call a "tax farm" is traditionally called industrial policy, and it has an exceptionally good track record.
bufferoverflow 9y ago
Some areas have produced cheaper energy without subsidies as far as 2014. See pages 2-4. It's way better now, since the solar prices went down so much. https://www.deutschebank.nl/nl/docs/Solar_-_2014_Outlook_Let_the_Second_Gold_Rush_Begin.pdf https://www.deutschebank.nl/nl/docs/Solar_-_2014_Outlook_Let... And to answer your question about non-tax-farm, I don't know. If the government gives a subsidy, why wouldn't you take it even if you're profitable without it? Subsidies alone don't prove that the solar farms are not profitable.
phil248 9y ago
It's almost as if initial government investment has allowed the technology to advance to the point that it no longer requires subsidy to be cost effective. Kind of like every other major industrial and technological breakthrough over the last 100 years.