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As long as they have the robot sitting there static, they're going to be hard pressed to beat a human. There's a lot more going on on a bike than just fiddling

As long as they have the robot sitting there static, they're going to be hard pressed to beat a human. There's a lot more going on on a bike than just fiddling with the throttle and steering

asteli 9y ago
The humanoid form is just for show. You need a handful of actuators to work the control and a way to power them. Throttle is already servo-actuated on the stock bike. The robot will have the advantage in mass and mass distribution. What I do think the bots will have a hard time doing is replicating the intuition that people like Rossi and Marquez have. Understanding what parts of the track have the most grip, braking/accelerating/cornering on the ragged edge of traction. And that's only half of what's happening in race conditions -- you have to contend with a grid full of other riders taking offensive lines and passing only inches away. A robot motorcycle might be able to take on GP-level riders at Thunder Hill in a time trial in a few years, but it's hard to imagine the same thing happening at, say, the Isle of Man TT, or anything approaching race conditions.
- fyfy18 9y ago
  > you have to contend with a grid full of other riders taking offensive lines and passing only inches away It'll be interesting to see what happens if we have robots and humans racing together. On one hand they will be programmed to win, but on the other hand, harming humans is a big no no. It's likely that this will happen before we have true AI, so it'll be the human overlords (i.e. team mangers) who make that moral decision. Given some of the things racing teams have done before to win, it could be quite concerning...
dazc 9y ago
“Motobot had to be taught how to balance the bike at lean angles from zero to over 50 degrees, at speeds between 5km/h and over 200 km/h." Article doesn't say, specifically, but it must be doing something other than just sitting static to achieve this? [edit] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dUb5T7DU-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dUb5T7DU-Q Bike has outriggers!
- adamcharnock 9y ago
  I’ve found countersteering to be a very effective way of adjusting the angle of a motorbike while riding. You basically push the handlebars in the ‘wrong’ direction and the bike just leans over. It’s scary when you first try it going down a motorway (it’s less sensitive at higher speed), but very effective indeed, and doesn’t require moving your centre of gravity. I don’t pretend to be a professional racer though. They do seem to lean a lot. PS. You can do this on a bicycle too, but the reduced momentum makes it much more sensitive.
  - vr46 9y ago
    All steering after ~15mph is countersteering. There's loads of very cool techniques involved in motorcycle racing, well outlined in Keith Code's book Twist of the Wrist 2, although some appear to be less useful nowadays, such as the speed of reaching lean angle versus the actual angle...
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - icc97 9y ago
    You do this when riding a bicycle too
  - GreyZephyr 9y ago
    Counter steering tips the bike into a corner. Some form of lateral force from the front tire and gravity from the lean angle are responsible for the bike turning. In modern racing the limit on the speed you can carry through a corner is the force between the tire and the road surface. This is proportional to the size of the contact patch between the tire and the road. Modern traction control systems have recently surpassed humans in being able to maintain a maximum amount of power to the rear wheel without making it spin out. Previously more lean usually ment a shorter line through a corner but was balanced by the need for accurate throttle control, leading to the rider being tucked in close to the bike with one knee down. With the new systems the aim has become to stand the bike up again as quickly as possible to maximize the contact patch allowing the traction control to put more power through the back wheel and accelerate the bike faster. This has changed the entire style of riding for professional racers, leading them to hang further out from the bike often touching both elbow and knee to the ground, to try and maintain the same center of gravity of the bike and rider but with the bike in a more upright position creating a larger contact patch and allowing the traction control to accelerate harder.
mhandley 9y ago
Agreed. Human racers hang off the bike while cornering, so the bike itself doesn't need to lean so far. This keeps the suspension geometry within a more reasonable range, and keeps a larger contact patch between the tyres and the track. I doubt it's possible to get close to the best human riders unless you can move the centre of mass around laterally.
mashgin 9y ago
It does look like it just sits there static. I actually saw this robot/bike at CES earlier this month (just the showcase, I didn't see it in action). The robot looked like a 'dummy'. As if there's no real practical purpose of the robot being there! They might have as well just fitted all the sensors on the bike itself, but that probably won't be good for PR.

As long as they have the robot sitting there static, they're going to be hard pressed to beat a human. There's a lot more going on on a bike than just fiddling with the throttle and steering

asteli 9y ago

The humanoid form is just for show. You need a handful of actuators to work the control and a way to power them. Throttle is already servo-actuated on the stock bike. The robot will have the advantage in mass and mass distribution. What I do think the bots will have a hard time doing is replicating the intuition that people like Rossi and Marquez have. Understanding what parts of the track have the most grip, braking/accelerating/cornering on the ragged edge of traction. And that's only half of what's happening in race conditions -- you have to contend with a grid full of other riders taking offensive lines and passing only inches away. A robot motorcycle might be able to take on GP-level riders at Thunder Hill in a time trial in a few years, but it's hard to imagine the same thing happening at, say, the Isle of Man TT, or anything approaching race conditions.

fyfy18 9y ago
> you have to contend with a grid full of other riders taking offensive lines and passing only inches away It'll be interesting to see what happens if we have robots and humans racing together. On one hand they will be programmed to win, but on the other hand, harming humans is a big no no. It's likely that this will happen before we have true AI, so it'll be the human overlords (i.e. team mangers) who make that moral decision. Given some of the things racing teams have done before to win, it could be quite concerning...

dazc 9y ago

“Motobot had to be taught how to balance the bike at lean angles from zero to over 50 degrees, at speeds between 5km/h and over 200 km/h." Article doesn't say, specifically, but it must be doing something other than just sitting static to achieve this? [edit] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dUb5T7DU-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dUb5T7DU-Q Bike has outriggers!

adamcharnock 9y ago
I’ve found countersteering to be a very effective way of adjusting the angle of a motorbike while riding. You basically push the handlebars in the ‘wrong’ direction and the bike just leans over. It’s scary when you first try it going down a motorway (it’s less sensitive at higher speed), but very effective indeed, and doesn’t require moving your centre of gravity. I don’t pretend to be a professional racer though. They do seem to lean a lot. PS. You can do this on a bicycle too, but the reduced momentum makes it much more sensitive.
- vr46 9y ago
  All steering after ~15mph is countersteering. There's loads of very cool techniques involved in motorcycle racing, well outlined in Keith Code's book Twist of the Wrist 2, although some appear to be less useful nowadays, such as the speed of reaching lean angle versus the actual angle...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- icc97 9y ago
  You do this when riding a bicycle too
- GreyZephyr 9y ago
  Counter steering tips the bike into a corner. Some form of lateral force from the front tire and gravity from the lean angle are responsible for the bike turning. In modern racing the limit on the speed you can carry through a corner is the force between the tire and the road surface. This is proportional to the size of the contact patch between the tire and the road. Modern traction control systems have recently surpassed humans in being able to maintain a maximum amount of power to the rear wheel without making it spin out. Previously more lean usually ment a shorter line through a corner but was balanced by the need for accurate throttle control, leading to the rider being tucked in close to the bike with one knee down. With the new systems the aim has become to stand the bike up again as quickly as possible to maximize the contact patch allowing the traction control to put more power through the back wheel and accelerate the bike faster. This has changed the entire style of riding for professional racers, leading them to hang further out from the bike often touching both elbow and knee to the ground, to try and maintain the same center of gravity of the bike and rider but with the bike in a more upright position creating a larger contact patch and allowing the traction control to accelerate harder.

mhandley 9y ago

Agreed. Human racers hang off the bike while cornering, so the bike itself doesn't need to lean so far. This keeps the suspension geometry within a more reasonable range, and keeps a larger contact patch between the tyres and the track. I doubt it's possible to get close to the best human riders unless you can move the centre of mass around laterally.

mashgin 9y ago

It does look like it just sits there static. I actually saw this robot/bike at CES earlier this month (just the showcase, I didn't see it in action). The robot looked like a 'dummy'. As if there's no real practical purpose of the robot being there! They might have as well just fitted all the sensors on the bike itself, but that probably won't be good for PR.