7 ms·

Exploring what loneliness does to the human body

182 points by fmihaila 9y ago

lsc 9y ago
>Then, the researchers gave each participant nasal drops containing rhinovirus 39, one of the viruses responsible for the common cold, sequestered them in separate hotel rooms for five days and asked them to record how they felt. I... don't understand how ethics boards work.
- notlob 9y ago
  “Then, the researchers gave each participant an intranasal live-virus vaccine against rhinovirus 39...” Joking aside, what part of this seems improperly managed by the IRB?
  - lsc 9y ago
    not badly managed... I just didn't think it was okay to make people sick for your study; perhaps "I don't understand what standards are applied by the ethics board." would have been more correct.
    - notlob 9y ago
      It’s a risk/benefits balance. Rhinovirus 39 is very low risk, especially under controlled conditions. Loneliness in the developed Western world is a growing problem, so gaining a better understanding of what impact it will have has clear benefits.
- IntronExon 9y ago
  They consider the potential for long term harm, of any kind, and the possible benefits and then advise. Rhinovirus 39 is unpleasant, but neither traumatic nor dangerous in healthy subjects. There is also no issue of zoonotic transmission leading to potential for dangerous mutations within a reservoir. Edit: Rhinovirus 39 is also incredibly well studied, cheap, and easy to inoculate a subject with.
e40 9y ago
How is theglobeandmail.com a reliable source for anything?
- perardi 9y ago
  I can understand that it's probably not the finest source for summarizing research, but it is the largest newspaper, and the country's de facto newspaper of record. It's not like it's the New York Post.
  - Pxtl 9y ago
    Oh God, it's the largest now? Margaret freaking Wente writes for Canada's largest paper?
firasd 9y ago
"Loneliness is distinct from the number of friends a person has or how much time he or she spends alone, but is rather defined by a longing for greater social interaction." I think this is a good distinction to make. Something I've been realizing from the way I see other people talk about and deal with being alone in situations, is that I have a much higher-than-usual tolerance for solitude. (Maybe a trait shared by others here on HN because of our interests and pastimes?) I'm pretty sure I can be in an isolated place for months at a time. (Of course I'd want the internet, books, music etc... being alone like in The Shining or in solitary confinement is a whole different situation.)
- zzzzzzzza 9y ago
  I can second your observation. With me though I do like to go out in public/to different locations (e.g. library or park) even if I don't actually interact with people there (whereas being alone in a room for months on end would be quite unpleasant, then again even if there was another person there it would probably still be unpleasant).
- bigiain 9y ago
  For me, it's more than just a "tolerance for solitude", I feel I have an occasional active desire for solitude. A few times a year I'll explicitly hide out for the weekend and avoid all outside communication. It's probably one of the reasons I like motorcyling so much - even when I'm out riding with friends, there's a thing a friend of mine calls "shared solitude" when your alone inside your helmet even if you've got 4 or 5 friends along for the ride - I often spend a day "out riding with friends" when really, we just stop and meet up every 2 hours for fuel/food, and spend the rest of our time alone but riding in close proximity.
- snarf21 9y ago
  I agree. Too often we forget that connection is a human thing. We think that snapping funny faces 4 times a day makes us connected but it is the opposite. One thing that I noticed when I started online dating is that it was really easy to get to know things about someone but really hard to get to know them. What really makes them them? It takes human interaction to learn that.
VelNZ 9y ago
It sounds like lonely people are adapted to being lonely by reducing viral defenses (unnecessary without people around) and increasing bacterial (inflammatory) defenses. It would be interesting to test this in a third group of people whom I'd term solitary, i.e. alone by choice and comfortable with it.
kuroshit 9y ago
It's a complete rewrite of this article but worse https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/well/mind/how-loneliness-affects-our-health.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/well/mind/how-loneliness-...
slitaz 9y ago
Very bad article. Does not address WHY would loneliness have such an effect. I mean "scientifically" why, not qualitatively.
- jawarner 9y ago
  What why-question are you interested in?
- brango 9y ago
  In a hunter-gatherer society you'd have far higher chances of survival in a team/tribe. I don't find it surprising at all that feeling lonely (a desire to be part of a tribe) would have such a strong impact on mental (and therefore physical) health. It would act as a strong drive for the lonely person to change their situation, potentially improving their chances of survival and reproduction. From an evolutionary perspective it's little different to starvation. In fact, you could define loneliness as "social starvation".
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
scotty79 9y ago
> [...] the researchers gave each participant nasal drops containing rhinovirus 39, one of the viruses responsible for the common cold > [...] > "Put simply, lonelier people feel worse when they are sick than less lonely people," It might be other way around. People with common cold become more social (virus makes them like that to spread) so they suffer more from loneliness.
- dunstad 9y ago
  I would expect that if this common cold virus had such an effect it would have been noticed by someone before now. I'm not a doctor or anything, but it just seems unlikely.
  - martinpw 9y ago
    There is this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20816312 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20816312 "Compared to the 48 hours pre-exposure, participants interacted with significantly more people, and in significantly larger groups, during the 48 hours immediately post-exposure [to a directly transmitted human pathogen-flu virus]."
icantdrive55 9y ago
Most of the loneliest people I have encountered do not admit they are lonely. Some very seemingly lonely people seem perfectly content my themselfs. Like most psychological studies; I would like to see the raw data, and the intake questions. (I used to get very lonely in my twenties, and thirties. I think loneliness might be tied to hormones. It might be where I reside, The Bay Area, but many days I would rather be alone, or have "them" far away--only communicating through electrons. I am a bit odd though.)
agumonkey 9y ago
There was an article about some famous author saying people should build up a habit, if not a pleasure, of being by themselves. I think it's a good idea to activate some parts of your mind, although it might suit (or reinforce) egoists.
drukenemo 9y ago
I think many of us suffer from being alone not only in the "without people" category but also fear silence and being with ourselves without distractions of any kind. We want to forget the uncertainties and mysteries of life, which can scare us tremendously. I've been in this process in my life in which I've learned to be with myself and face some of the fears that show up when you are with yourself only. The fear will always be there, but it can be tamed and lose its influence on you. Doing so has been very empowering to me. I'm no longer so much looking for other people and constant distractions out of fear, and that is liberating. I tend to look for those things now out of pleasure. This also has a positive effect on who you accept in your life. I wonder how much of what they call the physical pain of being lonely, the toxicity and potential life-span shortening of a lonely person just fear mismanaged.

182 points by fmihaila 9y ago

lsc 9y ago

>Then, the researchers gave each participant nasal drops containing rhinovirus 39, one of the viruses responsible for the common cold, sequestered them in separate hotel rooms for five days and asked them to record how they felt. I... don't understand how ethics boards work.

notlob 9y ago
“Then, the researchers gave each participant an intranasal live-virus vaccine against rhinovirus 39...” Joking aside, what part of this seems improperly managed by the IRB?
- lsc 9y ago
  not badly managed... I just didn't think it was okay to make people sick for your study; perhaps "I don't understand what standards are applied by the ethics board." would have been more correct.
  - notlob 9y ago
    It’s a risk/benefits balance. Rhinovirus 39 is very low risk, especially under controlled conditions. Loneliness in the developed Western world is a growing problem, so gaining a better understanding of what impact it will have has clear benefits.
IntronExon 9y ago
They consider the potential for long term harm, of any kind, and the possible benefits and then advise. Rhinovirus 39 is unpleasant, but neither traumatic nor dangerous in healthy subjects. There is also no issue of zoonotic transmission leading to potential for dangerous mutations within a reservoir. Edit: Rhinovirus 39 is also incredibly well studied, cheap, and easy to inoculate a subject with.

e40 9y ago

How is theglobeandmail.com a reliable source for anything?

perardi 9y ago
I can understand that it's probably not the finest source for summarizing research, but it is the largest newspaper, and the country's de facto newspaper of record. It's not like it's the New York Post.
- Pxtl 9y ago
  Oh God, it's the largest now? Margaret freaking Wente writes for Canada's largest paper?

firasd 9y ago

"Loneliness is distinct from the number of friends a person has or how much time he or she spends alone, but is rather defined by a longing for greater social interaction." I think this is a good distinction to make. Something I've been realizing from the way I see other people talk about and deal with being alone in situations, is that I have a much higher-than-usual tolerance for solitude. (Maybe a trait shared by others here on HN because of our interests and pastimes?) I'm pretty sure I can be in an isolated place for months at a time. (Of course I'd want the internet, books, music etc... being alone like in The Shining or in solitary confinement is a whole different situation.)

zzzzzzzza 9y ago
I can second your observation. With me though I do like to go out in public/to different locations (e.g. library or park) even if I don't actually interact with people there (whereas being alone in a room for months on end would be quite unpleasant, then again even if there was another person there it would probably still be unpleasant).
bigiain 9y ago
For me, it's more than just a "tolerance for solitude", I feel I have an occasional active desire for solitude. A few times a year I'll explicitly hide out for the weekend and avoid all outside communication. It's probably one of the reasons I like motorcyling so much - even when I'm out riding with friends, there's a thing a friend of mine calls "shared solitude" when your alone inside your helmet even if you've got 4 or 5 friends along for the ride - I often spend a day "out riding with friends" when really, we just stop and meet up every 2 hours for fuel/food, and spend the rest of our time alone but riding in close proximity.
snarf21 9y ago
I agree. Too often we forget that connection is a human thing. We think that snapping funny faces 4 times a day makes us connected but it is the opposite. One thing that I noticed when I started online dating is that it was really easy to get to know things about someone but really hard to get to know them. What really makes them them? It takes human interaction to learn that.

VelNZ 9y ago

It sounds like lonely people are adapted to being lonely by reducing viral defenses (unnecessary without people around) and increasing bacterial (inflammatory) defenses. It would be interesting to test this in a third group of people whom I'd term solitary, i.e. alone by choice and comfortable with it.

kuroshit 9y ago

It's a complete rewrite of this article but worse https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/well/mind/how-loneliness-affects-our-health.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/well/mind/how-loneliness-...

slitaz 9y ago

Very bad article. Does not address WHY would loneliness have such an effect. I mean "scientifically" why, not qualitatively.

jawarner 9y ago
What why-question are you interested in?
brango 9y ago
In a hunter-gatherer society you'd have far higher chances of survival in a team/tribe. I don't find it surprising at all that feeling lonely (a desire to be part of a tribe) would have such a strong impact on mental (and therefore physical) health. It would act as a strong drive for the lonely person to change their situation, potentially improving their chances of survival and reproduction. From an evolutionary perspective it's little different to starvation. In fact, you could define loneliness as "social starvation".

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

scotty79 9y ago

> [...] the researchers gave each participant nasal drops containing rhinovirus 39, one of the viruses responsible for the common cold > [...] > "Put simply, lonelier people feel worse when they are sick than less lonely people," It might be other way around. People with common cold become more social (virus makes them like that to spread) so they suffer more from loneliness.

dunstad 9y ago
I would expect that if this common cold virus had such an effect it would have been noticed by someone before now. I'm not a doctor or anything, but it just seems unlikely.
- martinpw 9y ago
  There is this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20816312 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20816312 "Compared to the 48 hours pre-exposure, participants interacted with significantly more people, and in significantly larger groups, during the 48 hours immediately post-exposure [to a directly transmitted human pathogen-flu virus]."

icantdrive55 9y ago

Most of the loneliest people I have encountered do not admit they are lonely. Some very seemingly lonely people seem perfectly content my themselfs. Like most psychological studies; I would like to see the raw data, and the intake questions. (I used to get very lonely in my twenties, and thirties. I think loneliness might be tied to hormones. It might be where I reside, The Bay Area, but many days I would rather be alone, or have "them" far away--only communicating through electrons. I am a bit odd though.)

agumonkey 9y ago

There was an article about some famous author saying people should build up a habit, if not a pleasure, of being by themselves. I think it's a good idea to activate some parts of your mind, although it might suit (or reinforce) egoists.

drukenemo 9y ago

I think many of us suffer from being alone not only in the "without people" category but also fear silence and being with ourselves without distractions of any kind. We want to forget the uncertainties and mysteries of life, which can scare us tremendously. I've been in this process in my life in which I've learned to be with myself and face some of the fears that show up when you are with yourself only. The fear will always be there, but it can be tamed and lose its influence on you. Doing so has been very empowering to me. I'm no longer so much looking for other people and constant distractions out of fear, and that is liberating. I tend to look for those things now out of pleasure. This also has a positive effect on who you accept in your life. I wonder how much of what they call the physical pain of being lonely, the toxicity and potential life-span shortening of a lonely person just fear mismanaged.