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Yup. Especially since China is already manufacturing their own x86 through a joint venture with Via Technologies. [0] After the Meltdown/Spectre fiasco with In

Yup. Especially since China is already manufacturing their own x86 through a joint venture with Via Technologies. [0] After the Meltdown/Spectre fiasco with Intel I'd be willing to bet China is weighing the performance penalty of switching to Zhaoxin CPUs versus paying Intel for buggy (and potentially backdoored via IME) CPUs. The Chinese have shown over the past decades that they're fully capable of innovating and building strong businesses in segments where they didn't previously compete (Huawei in telco, Lenovo in consumer PCs, Xiaomi in smartphones). Given that AMD was able to come up with Zen on a shoestring budget, who can say China can't do the same? They can certainly afford to throw money at R&D. [0] https://techreport.com/news/33018/via-joint-venture-reveals-kx-5000-x86-socs-for-chinese-pcs https://techreport.com/news/33018/via-joint-venture-reveals-...

throwaway7645 9y ago
They also routinely steal blueprints to US technology as well as the rest of the world. They make billions in IP theft annually. I'm not saying they can't innovate (being one of the first advanced civilizations), but they're currently so behind in many areas that corporate espionage + cheap knockoff is super profitable. Why spend billions in R&D?
- gonvaled 9y ago
  Why would disregarding the Mickey Mouse Industrial Complex be immoral?
- coldtea 9y ago
  So, just like US in the early days? Back in 1812, finished cotton textiles dominated British exports, accounting for about half of all trade revenues, the fruit of a half century of progress in mechanized mass production. Proportionate to GDP, the industry was about three times the size of the entire U.S. automobile sector today. High-speed textile manufacture was a highly advanced technology for its era, and Great Britain was as sensitive about sharing it as the United States is with advanced software and microprocessor breakthroughs. The British parliament legislated severe sanctions for transferring trade secrets, even prohibiting the emigration of skilled textile workers or machinists. But the Americans had no respect for British intellectual property protections. They had fought for independence to escape the mother country’s suffocating economic restrictions. In their eyes, British technology barriers were a pseudo-colonial ploy to force the United States to serve as a ready source of raw materials and as a captive market for low-end manufactures. While the first U.S. patent act, in 1790, specified that "any person or persons" could file a patent, it was changed in 1793 to make clear that only U.S. citizens could claim U.S. patent protection. http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/ https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-nations-are-stealing-us-technology-america-has-history https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...
  - astebbin 9y ago
    Unlike the 18th-century USA, China is party to numerous international treaties and conventions [0] which obligate it to honor certain IP protections. Their enforcement record to date has been spotty at best, with many [1] allegations [2] of state-assisted [3] or -condoned [4] IP [5] theft [6]. Also, between slavery and the Native American genocide(s), I'd say the 18th-century USA may not be a great moral reference point. For that matter, China's government at that time still practiced slavery, foot binding, judicial torture, and all kinds of fun stuff. Neither would be great models for a modern state. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_China#International_conventions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_China... [1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/14/news/economy/trump-china-trade-intellectual-property/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/14/news/economy/trump-china-tra... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/opinion/china-us-intellectual-property-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/opinion/china-us-intellec... [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-fighter-hacking/theft-of-f-35-design-data-is-helping-u-s-adversaries-pentagon-idUSL2N0EV0T320130619 https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-fighter-hacking/theft-of... [4] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-great-brain-robbery-china-cyber-espionage/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-great-brain-robbery-... [5] https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/cisco-subnet/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/cisco-subnet/60... [6] http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/may/17/newt-gingrich/newt-gingrich-says-china-stole-360-billion-intelle/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/may/17/...
- T-N-T 9y ago
  > Why spend billions in R&D? Because it's profitable. Once upon a time, Japan was perceived the way we currently perceive China : a land where cheap, flimsy knockoffs were produced. The first camera made by Canon (which is, today, the most popular camera manufacturers in many segments of photography, such as journalism) was a 100% copy of Leica designs. There was literally no innovation whatsoever, just copy of german engineering. But once the corporations acquired the base know how, developed better quality control and started to gain popularity in the low end, they reinvested their money into R&D, and they now are one of the best brands of the market, cornering both the low end and the high end. Almost every single western camera brand died except for Leica, which survived mostly on selling brand recognition to people who have more money than sense (this is particularly true for the people who buy the idiotic non-rangefinder Leica camera that are actually made by Panasonic which are virtually identical to other panasonic lumix models and sold at a premium because there's a Leica badge). Most well known japanese brands started like Canon. I believe we're already starting to see the transition from 'eh, knockoff' to companies that are reinvesting in R&D in China and this is going to eat at all the markets previously corned by silicon valley giants. Good smartphones are already a commodity. I have the Honor 8, which is made by Huawei, who build their own system-on-chips like Apple and Samsung. It's still running as fast as it was on day one and I probably won't feel the need to change for something else as long as it keeps working. The only thing they need to improve on is the camera quality and if they can manage to rival top end smartphones in terms of cameras in the future they will lay waste upon Samsung. Apple might survive because like Leica they have a heavy contingent of people with more money than sense that are loyal to status symbols/veblen goods.
buttcoinslol 9y ago
Chinese manufacturers just figured out how to make a complete ballpoint pen last year.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- buttcoinslol 9y ago
  http://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out-how-to-make-ballpoint-pens-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out... Not sure why I'm being downvoted, it's a perfect example of a difficult problem (creating the metal ball) taking a long time to figure out when there isn't a shortcut. It's not a value judgement, other countries have had longer to figure this stuff out.

throwaway7645 9y ago

They also routinely steal blueprints to US technology as well as the rest of the world. They make billions in IP theft annually. I'm not saying they can't innovate (being one of the first advanced civilizations), but they're currently so behind in many areas that corporate espionage + cheap knockoff is super profitable. Why spend billions in R&D?

gonvaled 9y ago
Why would disregarding the Mickey Mouse Industrial Complex be immoral?
coldtea 9y ago
So, just like US in the early days? Back in 1812, finished cotton textiles dominated British exports, accounting for about half of all trade revenues, the fruit of a half century of progress in mechanized mass production. Proportionate to GDP, the industry was about three times the size of the entire U.S. automobile sector today. High-speed textile manufacture was a highly advanced technology for its era, and Great Britain was as sensitive about sharing it as the United States is with advanced software and microprocessor breakthroughs. The British parliament legislated severe sanctions for transferring trade secrets, even prohibiting the emigration of skilled textile workers or machinists. But the Americans had no respect for British intellectual property protections. They had fought for independence to escape the mother country’s suffocating economic restrictions. In their eyes, British technology barriers were a pseudo-colonial ploy to force the United States to serve as a ready source of raw materials and as a captive market for low-end manufactures. While the first U.S. patent act, in 1790, specified that "any person or persons" could file a patent, it was changed in 1793 to make clear that only U.S. citizens could claim U.S. patent protection. http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/ https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-nations-are-stealing-us-technology-america-has-history https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...
- astebbin 9y ago
  Unlike the 18th-century USA, China is party to numerous international treaties and conventions [0] which obligate it to honor certain IP protections. Their enforcement record to date has been spotty at best, with many [1] allegations [2] of state-assisted [3] or -condoned [4] IP [5] theft [6]. Also, between slavery and the Native American genocide(s), I'd say the 18th-century USA may not be a great moral reference point. For that matter, China's government at that time still practiced slavery, foot binding, judicial torture, and all kinds of fun stuff. Neither would be great models for a modern state. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_China#International_conventions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_China... [1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/14/news/economy/trump-china-trade-intellectual-property/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/14/news/economy/trump-china-tra... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/opinion/china-us-intellectual-property-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/opinion/china-us-intellec... [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-fighter-hacking/theft-of-f-35-design-data-is-helping-u-s-adversaries-pentagon-idUSL2N0EV0T320130619 https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-fighter-hacking/theft-of... [4] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-great-brain-robbery-china-cyber-espionage/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-great-brain-robbery-... [5] https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/cisco-subnet/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/cisco-subnet/60... [6] http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/may/17/newt-gingrich/newt-gingrich-says-china-stole-360-billion-intelle/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/may/17/...
T-N-T 9y ago
> Why spend billions in R&D? Because it's profitable. Once upon a time, Japan was perceived the way we currently perceive China : a land where cheap, flimsy knockoffs were produced. The first camera made by Canon (which is, today, the most popular camera manufacturers in many segments of photography, such as journalism) was a 100% copy of Leica designs. There was literally no innovation whatsoever, just copy of german engineering. But once the corporations acquired the base know how, developed better quality control and started to gain popularity in the low end, they reinvested their money into R&D, and they now are one of the best brands of the market, cornering both the low end and the high end. Almost every single western camera brand died except for Leica, which survived mostly on selling brand recognition to people who have more money than sense (this is particularly true for the people who buy the idiotic non-rangefinder Leica camera that are actually made by Panasonic which are virtually identical to other panasonic lumix models and sold at a premium because there's a Leica badge). Most well known japanese brands started like Canon. I believe we're already starting to see the transition from 'eh, knockoff' to companies that are reinvesting in R&D in China and this is going to eat at all the markets previously corned by silicon valley giants. Good smartphones are already a commodity. I have the Honor 8, which is made by Huawei, who build their own system-on-chips like Apple and Samsung. It's still running as fast as it was on day one and I probably won't feel the need to change for something else as long as it keeps working. The only thing they need to improve on is the camera quality and if they can manage to rival top end smartphones in terms of cameras in the future they will lay waste upon Samsung. Apple might survive because like Leica they have a heavy contingent of people with more money than sense that are loyal to status symbols/veblen goods.

buttcoinslol 9y ago

Chinese manufacturers just figured out how to make a complete ballpoint pen last year.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
buttcoinslol 9y ago
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out-how-to-make-ballpoint-pens-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out... Not sure why I'm being downvoted, it's a perfect example of a difficult problem (creating the metal ball) taking a long time to figure out when there isn't a shortcut. It's not a value judgement, other countries have had longer to figure this stuff out.