4 ms·

I’m guessing that the Chinese govt is a lot more likely to drop intel than the us one.

downrightmike 9y ago
China does have a home grown chip that will look more attractive to them: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3086107/hardware/chinas-secretive-super-fast-chip-powers-the-worlds-fastest-computer.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3086107/hardware/chinas-secr...
- blattimwind 9y ago
  The SW26010 is about as useful for servers and desktops as 10 million Soviet foot soldiers are in a sea battle.
kogepathic 9y ago
Yup. Especially since China is already manufacturing their own x86 through a joint venture with Via Technologies. [0] After the Meltdown/Spectre fiasco with Intel I'd be willing to bet China is weighing the performance penalty of switching to Zhaoxin CPUs versus paying Intel for buggy (and potentially backdoored via IME) CPUs. The Chinese have shown over the past decades that they're fully capable of innovating and building strong businesses in segments where they didn't previously compete (Huawei in telco, Lenovo in consumer PCs, Xiaomi in smartphones). Given that AMD was able to come up with Zen on a shoestring budget, who can say China can't do the same? They can certainly afford to throw money at R&D. [0] https://techreport.com/news/33018/via-joint-venture-reveals-kx-5000-x86-socs-for-chinese-pcs https://techreport.com/news/33018/via-joint-venture-reveals-...
- throwaway7645 9y ago
  They also routinely steal blueprints to US technology as well as the rest of the world. They make billions in IP theft annually. I'm not saying they can't innovate (being one of the first advanced civilizations), but they're currently so behind in many areas that corporate espionage + cheap knockoff is super profitable. Why spend billions in R&D?
  - gonvaled 9y ago
    Why would disregarding the Mickey Mouse Industrial Complex be immoral?
  - coldtea 9y ago
    So, just like US in the early days? Back in 1812, finished cotton textiles dominated British exports, accounting for about half of all trade revenues, the fruit of a half century of progress in mechanized mass production. Proportionate to GDP, the industry was about three times the size of the entire U.S. automobile sector today. High-speed textile manufacture was a highly advanced technology for its era, and Great Britain was as sensitive about sharing it as the United States is with advanced software and microprocessor breakthroughs. The British parliament legislated severe sanctions for transferring trade secrets, even prohibiting the emigration of skilled textile workers or machinists. But the Americans had no respect for British intellectual property protections. They had fought for independence to escape the mother country’s suffocating economic restrictions. In their eyes, British technology barriers were a pseudo-colonial ploy to force the United States to serve as a ready source of raw materials and as a captive market for low-end manufactures. While the first U.S. patent act, in 1790, specified that "any person or persons" could file a patent, it was changed in 1793 to make clear that only U.S. citizens could claim U.S. patent protection. http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/ https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-nations-are-stealing-us-technology-america-has-history https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...
    - astebbin 9y ago
      Unlike the 18th-century USA, China is party to numerous international treaties and conventions [0] which obligate it to honor certain IP protections. Their enforcement record to date has been spotty at best, with many [1] allegations [2] of state-assisted [3] or -condoned [4] IP [5] theft [6]. Also, between slavery and the Native American genocide(s), I'd say the 18th-century USA may not be a great moral reference point. For that matter, China's government at that time still practiced slavery, foot binding, judicial torture, and all kinds of fun stuff. Neither would be great models for a modern state. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_China#International_conventions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_China... [1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/14/news/economy/trump-china-trade-intellectual-property/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/14/news/economy/trump-china-tra... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/opinion/china-us-intellectual-property-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/opinion/china-us-intellec... [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-fighter-hacking/theft-of-f-35-design-data-is-helping-u-s-adversaries-pentagon-idUSL2N0EV0T320130619 https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-fighter-hacking/theft-of... [4] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-great-brain-robbery-china-cyber-espionage/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-great-brain-robbery-... [5] https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/cisco-subnet/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/cisco-subnet/60... [6] http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/may/17/newt-gingrich/newt-gingrich-says-china-stole-360-billion-intelle/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/may/17/...
- buttcoinslol 9y ago
  Chinese manufacturers just figured out how to make a complete ballpoint pen last year.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - buttcoinslol 9y ago
    http://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out-how-to-make-ballpoint-pens-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out... Not sure why I'm being downvoted, it's a perfect example of a difficult problem (creating the metal ball) taking a long time to figure out when there isn't a shortcut. It's not a value judgement, other countries have had longer to figure this stuff out.

China does have a home grown chip that will look more attractive to them: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3086107/hardware/chinas-secretive-super-fast-chip-powers-the-worlds-fastest-computer.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3086107/hardware/chinas-secr...

blattimwind 9y ago
The SW26010 is about as useful for servers and desktops as 10 million Soviet foot soldiers are in a sea battle.

kogepathic 9y ago

Yup. Especially since China is already manufacturing their own x86 through a joint venture with Via Technologies. [0] After the Meltdown/Spectre fiasco with Intel I'd be willing to bet China is weighing the performance penalty of switching to Zhaoxin CPUs versus paying Intel for buggy (and potentially backdoored via IME) CPUs. The Chinese have shown over the past decades that they're fully capable of innovating and building strong businesses in segments where they didn't previously compete (Huawei in telco, Lenovo in consumer PCs, Xiaomi in smartphones). Given that AMD was able to come up with Zen on a shoestring budget, who can say China can't do the same? They can certainly afford to throw money at R&D. [0] https://techreport.com/news/33018/via-joint-venture-reveals-kx-5000-x86-socs-for-chinese-pcs https://techreport.com/news/33018/via-joint-venture-reveals-...

throwaway7645 9y ago
They also routinely steal blueprints to US technology as well as the rest of the world. They make billions in IP theft annually. I'm not saying they can't innovate (being one of the first advanced civilizations), but they're currently so behind in many areas that corporate espionage + cheap knockoff is super profitable. Why spend billions in R&D?
- gonvaled 9y ago
  Why would disregarding the Mickey Mouse Industrial Complex be immoral?
- coldtea 9y ago
  So, just like US in the early days? Back in 1812, finished cotton textiles dominated British exports, accounting for about half of all trade revenues, the fruit of a half century of progress in mechanized mass production. Proportionate to GDP, the industry was about three times the size of the entire U.S. automobile sector today. High-speed textile manufacture was a highly advanced technology for its era, and Great Britain was as sensitive about sharing it as the United States is with advanced software and microprocessor breakthroughs. The British parliament legislated severe sanctions for transferring trade secrets, even prohibiting the emigration of skilled textile workers or machinists. But the Americans had no respect for British intellectual property protections. They had fought for independence to escape the mother country’s suffocating economic restrictions. In their eyes, British technology barriers were a pseudo-colonial ploy to force the United States to serve as a ready source of raw materials and as a captive market for low-end manufactures. While the first U.S. patent act, in 1790, specified that "any person or persons" could file a patent, it was changed in 1793 to make clear that only U.S. citizens could claim U.S. patent protection. http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/ https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-nations-are-stealing-us-technology-america-has-history https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...
  - astebbin 9y ago
    Unlike the 18th-century USA, China is party to numerous international treaties and conventions [0] which obligate it to honor certain IP protections. Their enforcement record to date has been spotty at best, with many [1] allegations [2] of state-assisted [3] or -condoned [4] IP [5] theft [6]. Also, between slavery and the Native American genocide(s), I'd say the 18th-century USA may not be a great moral reference point. For that matter, China's government at that time still practiced slavery, foot binding, judicial torture, and all kinds of fun stuff. Neither would be great models for a modern state. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_China#International_conventions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_China... [1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/14/news/economy/trump-china-trade-intellectual-property/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/14/news/economy/trump-china-tra... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/opinion/china-us-intellectual-property-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/opinion/china-us-intellec... [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-fighter-hacking/theft-of-f-35-design-data-is-helping-u-s-adversaries-pentagon-idUSL2N0EV0T320130619 https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-fighter-hacking/theft-of... [4] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-great-brain-robbery-china-cyber-espionage/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-great-brain-robbery-... [5] https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/cisco-subnet/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/cisco-subnet/60... [6] http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/may/17/newt-gingrich/newt-gingrich-says-china-stole-360-billion-intelle/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/may/17/...
buttcoinslol 9y ago
Chinese manufacturers just figured out how to make a complete ballpoint pen last year.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- buttcoinslol 9y ago
  http://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out-how-to-make-ballpoint-pens-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out... Not sure why I'm being downvoted, it's a perfect example of a difficult problem (creating the metal ball) taking a long time to figure out when there isn't a shortcut. It's not a value judgement, other countries have had longer to figure this stuff out.