12 ms·

You are splitting hairs. "people/companies who pay into the German universal health insurance system" are effectively being taxed, whatever the wording is.

lispm 9y ago
No, they are insurance membership contributions in Germany. The contributions are specifically used to finance the health system, here the specific health insurer. Taxes generally are not paid for a person, but for things and values, etc.. Taxes are also not bound to a specific purpose, but are going into the general budget of the country/state/town. Taxes and insurance fees are different finance models. In Germany there are basically three types of financing for services: 'Steuern' = taxes , Gebühren = fee, Beiträge = contributions. In Germany the health care system is based on 'Beiträge', i.e. membership contributions to a health insurance.
- germanier 9y ago
  In International discourse and comparison (e.g. those done by the OECD) most of those typically run under the label "taxes". The German distinction doesn't translate well into other systems. It should be noted that (based on the vague description from the article) her insurance probably got compensation payments from the federal government for her insurance (if it was in fact free through her husband).
  - lispm 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care > Most universal health care systems are funded primarily by tax revenue (like in Portugal[24] Spain, Denmark, and Sweden). Some nations, such as Germany and France[25] and Japan[26] employ a multipayer system in which health care is funded by private and public contributions
    - germanier 9y ago
      > Vorweg ist anzumerken, dass die in Deutschland vorgenommene Trennung zwischen Steuern und Sozialabgaben in vielen Staaten nicht üblich ist. Daher verstehen internationale Organisationen unter dem Begriff „Steuern“ („Taxes“) in der Regel die Summe aus Steuern und Sozialabgaben und behandeln die Sozialabgaben („Social Security Contributions“) als Teilbetrag der Steuern. http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Monatsberichte/2010/03/Artikel/analysen-und-berichte/b04-indikatoren-steuer-abgabenbelastung/indikatoren-steuer-abgabenbelastung.html http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Monatsberic...
      - lispm 9y ago
        Paper published by the World Health Organization http://www.who.int/health_financing/taxed_based_financing_dp_04_4.pdf http://www.who.int/health_financing/taxed_based_financing_dp... > Tax-Based Financing for Health Systems: Options and Experiences > social insurance, private insurance and general taxation Social insurance is the German model. > By contrast, Germany's policy to combine its sickness funds into a social health insurance system -- generally credited as the first effort to enact universal health insurance coverage -- dates from the second half of the 19th century. or see: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.628.5428&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.628... > Social Health Insurance vs. Tax-Financed Health Systems—Evidence from the OECD SHI -> German model. > it was in Germany and neighboring countries that SHI began Also see: https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/how-health-care-is-funded https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/how-health-care-is... Options discussed: Taxation, Private Health Insurance, Social Health Insurance, User charges as an additional source of financing https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4628174/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4628174/ > Current Trends in Health Insurance Systems: OECD Countries vs. Japan > There are three major types of social health-care systems: social insurance systems like Japan, France, and Germany, tax-based system like the United Kingdom and Sweden, and the United States—limited service to the elderly or disabled, called Medicare (Table 1). Again, Germany has a social insurance system, not a tax-based system.
        9y ago
- ams6110 9y ago
  < In Germany the health care system is based on 'Beiträge', i.e. membership contributions to a health insurance. Is it mandatory? If so, it's a tax in my book.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - lispm 9y ago
    Tax-based (example: NHS of United Kingdom) Public -> pays to general government budget -> government pays to health care services vs. Social Healthcare Insurance (example: Germany) Employer + Employee + self-employed + Students + Pensioner -> pay to Private/Public Sickness funds/Insurers -> Sickness funds/Insurers pays to health care services See: https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/how-health-care-is-funded https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/how-health-care-is...
  - kuschku 9y ago
    No. You can leave the public insurance system at any time, and get a private insurance. But if you have ever done so, you can never return into the public system.
    - germanier 9y ago
      You cannot leave at "any time". To qualify, you need to have an income of over 59k € or be a freelancer. For most others (which is most of the population) private insurance is not possible. You can however purchase additional insurance on top of the public one.
      - kuschku 9y ago
        Well, this is HN, a forum for mostly software engineers, so an income of over 59k€ should be expected. You are right, though, if one considers the average citizen.

lispm 9y ago

No, they are insurance membership contributions in Germany. The contributions are specifically used to finance the health system, here the specific health insurer. Taxes generally are not paid for a person, but for things and values, etc.. Taxes are also not bound to a specific purpose, but are going into the general budget of the country/state/town. Taxes and insurance fees are different finance models. In Germany there are basically three types of financing for services: 'Steuern' = taxes , Gebühren = fee, Beiträge = contributions. In Germany the health care system is based on 'Beiträge', i.e. membership contributions to a health insurance.

germanier 9y ago
In International discourse and comparison (e.g. those done by the OECD) most of those typically run under the label "taxes". The German distinction doesn't translate well into other systems. It should be noted that (based on the vague description from the article) her insurance probably got compensation payments from the federal government for her insurance (if it was in fact free through her husband).
- lispm 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care > Most universal health care systems are funded primarily by tax revenue (like in Portugal[24] Spain, Denmark, and Sweden). Some nations, such as Germany and France[25] and Japan[26] employ a multipayer system in which health care is funded by private and public contributions
  - germanier 9y ago
    > Vorweg ist anzumerken, dass die in Deutschland vorgenommene Trennung zwischen Steuern und Sozialabgaben in vielen Staaten nicht üblich ist. Daher verstehen internationale Organisationen unter dem Begriff „Steuern“ („Taxes“) in der Regel die Summe aus Steuern und Sozialabgaben und behandeln die Sozialabgaben („Social Security Contributions“) als Teilbetrag der Steuern. http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Monatsberichte/2010/03/Artikel/analysen-und-berichte/b04-indikatoren-steuer-abgabenbelastung/indikatoren-steuer-abgabenbelastung.html http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Monatsberic...
    - lispm 9y ago
      Paper published by the World Health Organization http://www.who.int/health_financing/taxed_based_financing_dp_04_4.pdf http://www.who.int/health_financing/taxed_based_financing_dp... > Tax-Based Financing for Health Systems: Options and Experiences > social insurance, private insurance and general taxation Social insurance is the German model. > By contrast, Germany's policy to combine its sickness funds into a social health insurance system -- generally credited as the first effort to enact universal health insurance coverage -- dates from the second half of the 19th century. or see: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.628.5428&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.628... > Social Health Insurance vs. Tax-Financed Health Systems—Evidence from the OECD SHI -> German model. > it was in Germany and neighboring countries that SHI began Also see: https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/how-health-care-is-funded https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/how-health-care-is... Options discussed: Taxation, Private Health Insurance, Social Health Insurance, User charges as an additional source of financing https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4628174/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4628174/ > Current Trends in Health Insurance Systems: OECD Countries vs. Japan > There are three major types of social health-care systems: social insurance systems like Japan, France, and Germany, tax-based system like the United Kingdom and Sweden, and the United States—limited service to the elderly or disabled, called Medicare (Table 1). Again, Germany has a social insurance system, not a tax-based system.
      - 9y ago
ams6110 9y ago
< In Germany the health care system is based on 'Beiträge', i.e. membership contributions to a health insurance. Is it mandatory? If so, it's a tax in my book.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- lispm 9y ago
  Tax-based (example: NHS of United Kingdom) Public -> pays to general government budget -> government pays to health care services vs. Social Healthcare Insurance (example: Germany) Employer + Employee + self-employed + Students + Pensioner -> pay to Private/Public Sickness funds/Insurers -> Sickness funds/Insurers pays to health care services See: https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/how-health-care-is-funded https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/how-health-care-is...
- kuschku 9y ago
  No. You can leave the public insurance system at any time, and get a private insurance. But if you have ever done so, you can never return into the public system.
  - germanier 9y ago
    You cannot leave at "any time". To qualify, you need to have an income of over 59k € or be a freelancer. For most others (which is most of the population) private insurance is not possible. You can however purchase additional insurance on top of the public one.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      Well, this is HN, a forum for mostly software engineers, so an income of over 59k€ should be expected. You are right, though, if one considers the average citizen.