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Mixed feelings here. Incredible entrepreneur that built an empire on solid product values. Masterfully executed through laser focus on logistics. Brought design

by slac 9y ago

Mixed feelings here. Incredible entrepreneur that built an empire on solid product values. Masterfully executed through laser focus on logistics. Brought design and furniture to the masses. Shadowed by his Nazi roots which I never felt he apologized forcefully enough... And the fact the incredibly shadowy ikea tax structure makes it hard for anyone to compete against. Profiles itself as a Swedish company and uses the country for marketing purposes but has done everything it could to avoid taxes here. Also, the mountain of cash hidden in all the Dutch and Luxembourg trust funds coming from this tax structure is not being used to contribute back to society in a meaningful way like Gates and Buffett.

zkomp 9y ago
Tax evasion... did that not happen only after the swedish arrogant Socialists wanted to impose one extra tax that would only hit IKEA? I really think my country has been crazy a long time with the highest taxation in the world... Honestly, we need more companies leaving...
- robert_foss 9y ago
  Sorry, which tax was proposed that specifically targetted only IKEA?
  - jchb 9y ago
    It was not a specific tax that targeted IKEA. But there was a set of taxes and regulations that one could say targeted all major "owners of capital". Until 1989, the corporate tax was 52%. Yes there were various deductions, but still, 52%. Then a wealth tax of 2.5% on assets (all asset classes) over 1.6 million kronor - about $1.5 million in todays monetary value. This wealth tax could also be collected from a corporation when its liquid holdings exceeded double than that that of its debt. Add to that, a intense political debate about introducing the so called Employee Funds - a mechanism in where a large part of the collected corporate tax would be dedicated to buying shares in the taxed corporation, shares that would then be distributed among the employees with a goal of collective ownership. Perhaps indicative of the business climate in 1970s Sweden, Astrid Lindgren, the author of Pippi Longstocking, famously wrote a short satirical story about her over 100% margin tax rate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomperipossa_in_Monismania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomperipossa_in_Monismania.
    - alphonsegaston 9y ago
      And yet Lindgren remained a committed Social Democrat even in spite of this. Drawing a parallel between her and a tax-dodging, fascist sympathizer is quite the leap. Lindgren despised the Nazism Kamprad embraced and never really fully repudiated.
      - jchb 9y ago
        Not sure where I drew that parallel. I think we aren't discussing the facist angle in this sub-thread. What you are saying regarding Lindgren is correct, but the point is that the Social Democrats went to far, as they drew heavy criticism from even a loyal supporter. But then the party partially reversed direction in the 1990s. Note that Ingvar Kamprad wasn't the only one to leave Sweden for tax related reasons in the 70-80s era. To name a few others: Hans Rausing (TetraPak), Stefan Persson (H&M), Ingmar Bergman, Björn Borg..
        alphonsegaston 9y ago
        You used Lindgren and her story as an example of the "business climate" of Sweden in the 70s and as an implied defense of Kamprad/IKEA's actions. But her critique, when coupled with her continued commitment to socialism, isn't comparable to Kamprad/IKEA's actions. Essentially, there's an important and material difference between saying, "I'm a socialist, but these taxes, which I'll continue to pay, are excessive" and "I'm an unreprentant fascist who must hide my wealth from these undeserving thieves," even if the latter can opportunistically profit from the former's sentiment to justify their own actions.
        jchb 9y ago
        The way you are framing it, it sounds like Lindgren did a bad thing in criticising the Social democrats, but in the end she remained committed to socialism, so she ended up on the "safe side". Or being "good socialist" is one end of the scale, and "bad fascist capitalist" is on the other end. That doesn't make much sense, as that is mixing up two different scales. Fascism is a political system (could be described as a militaristic nationalism) that is opposed to democracy, while capitalism is an economical system. In fact, what Lindgren did remain committed to was not really socialism, but rather a form of social democracy with a "mix" economy including both state and private ownership - which is what Swedens Social Democratic party came to represent in the 1990s.
vadimberman 9y ago
> Also, the mountain of cash hidden in all the Dutch and Luxembourg trust funds coming from this tax structure is not being used to contribute back to society in a meaningful way like Gates and Buffett. Not really an excuse, but at least since 1990s, that was very common among the European rich. Psychologically, it's easy to justify: the state takes about half of your hard-earned cash, then passes it on to a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels who have not done a damn thing in their lives. On the other hand, before everything became computerised, stashing the money in Luxembourg was way too easy.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  Yes, I’m psychology there’s a term for that: selfish. Could also go with “social parasite” if we’re going more with political theory.

by slac 9y ago

zkomp 9y ago

Tax evasion... did that not happen only after the swedish arrogant Socialists wanted to impose one extra tax that would only hit IKEA? I really think my country has been crazy a long time with the highest taxation in the world... Honestly, we need more companies leaving...

robert_foss 9y ago
Sorry, which tax was proposed that specifically targetted only IKEA?
- jchb 9y ago
  It was not a specific tax that targeted IKEA. But there was a set of taxes and regulations that one could say targeted all major "owners of capital". Until 1989, the corporate tax was 52%. Yes there were various deductions, but still, 52%. Then a wealth tax of 2.5% on assets (all asset classes) over 1.6 million kronor - about $1.5 million in todays monetary value. This wealth tax could also be collected from a corporation when its liquid holdings exceeded double than that that of its debt. Add to that, a intense political debate about introducing the so called Employee Funds - a mechanism in where a large part of the collected corporate tax would be dedicated to buying shares in the taxed corporation, shares that would then be distributed among the employees with a goal of collective ownership. Perhaps indicative of the business climate in 1970s Sweden, Astrid Lindgren, the author of Pippi Longstocking, famously wrote a short satirical story about her over 100% margin tax rate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomperipossa_in_Monismania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomperipossa_in_Monismania.
  - alphonsegaston 9y ago
    And yet Lindgren remained a committed Social Democrat even in spite of this. Drawing a parallel between her and a tax-dodging, fascist sympathizer is quite the leap. Lindgren despised the Nazism Kamprad embraced and never really fully repudiated.
    - jchb 9y ago
      Not sure where I drew that parallel. I think we aren't discussing the facist angle in this sub-thread. What you are saying regarding Lindgren is correct, but the point is that the Social Democrats went to far, as they drew heavy criticism from even a loyal supporter. But then the party partially reversed direction in the 1990s. Note that Ingvar Kamprad wasn't the only one to leave Sweden for tax related reasons in the 70-80s era. To name a few others: Hans Rausing (TetraPak), Stefan Persson (H&M), Ingmar Bergman, Björn Borg..
      - alphonsegaston 9y ago
        You used Lindgren and her story as an example of the "business climate" of Sweden in the 70s and as an implied defense of Kamprad/IKEA's actions. But her critique, when coupled with her continued commitment to socialism, isn't comparable to Kamprad/IKEA's actions. Essentially, there's an important and material difference between saying, "I'm a socialist, but these taxes, which I'll continue to pay, are excessive" and "I'm an unreprentant fascist who must hide my wealth from these undeserving thieves," even if the latter can opportunistically profit from the former's sentiment to justify their own actions.
        jchb 9y ago
        The way you are framing it, it sounds like Lindgren did a bad thing in criticising the Social democrats, but in the end she remained committed to socialism, so she ended up on the "safe side". Or being "good socialist" is one end of the scale, and "bad fascist capitalist" is on the other end. That doesn't make much sense, as that is mixing up two different scales. Fascism is a political system (could be described as a militaristic nationalism) that is opposed to democracy, while capitalism is an economical system. In fact, what Lindgren did remain committed to was not really socialism, but rather a form of social democracy with a "mix" economy including both state and private ownership - which is what Swedens Social Democratic party came to represent in the 1990s.

vadimberman 9y ago

> Also, the mountain of cash hidden in all the Dutch and Luxembourg trust funds coming from this tax structure is not being used to contribute back to society in a meaningful way like Gates and Buffett. Not really an excuse, but at least since 1990s, that was very common among the European rich. Psychologically, it's easy to justify: the state takes about half of your hard-earned cash, then passes it on to a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels who have not done a damn thing in their lives. On the other hand, before everything became computerised, stashing the money in Luxembourg was way too easy.

abritinthebay 9y ago
Yes, I’m psychology there’s a term for that: selfish. Could also go with “social parasite” if we’re going more with political theory.