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It allows you to opt out of the monetary system that's been imposed on you by your govt. This might be less of a big deal if you live in a developed country but

It allows you to opt out of the monetary system that's been imposed on you by your govt. This might be less of a big deal if you live in a developed country but it's a big deal if you live in an unstable country.

empath75 9y ago
Instead you can put your money into a pyramid scheme run by gangsters.
- adamnemecek 9y ago
  Kinda like the banking system?
  - buttcoinslol 9y ago
    Better the devil you know. FDIC and SIPC instill a lot more confidence in me (and every single rational investor) than uh Bitfinex or Kraken.
    - adamnemecek 9y ago
      Store it in an offline wallet.
troels 9y ago
So does foreign currency
bradleyjg 9y ago
Why not just hold most of your savings in dollars, euros, swiss franks, or whatever? Doesn't that just as effectively opt you opt?
- adamnemecek 9y ago
  Let’s say you have to leave the country with all your saving. I’d much more comfortable carrying it in btc than cash.
  - bradleyjg 9y ago
    You don't need to hold physical cash to hold USD. You could have a bank account in London, Geneva, Paris, or New York with your pounds, franks, euros, or dollars. If you need to leave the country, your savings are already outside of it. Just like your bitcoins. The answer seems to be that repressive countries haven't yet put in place effective mechanisms to be repressive with respect to bitcoins. But there's zero reason intrinsic to bitcoin to expect that to continue. On the contrary, since everything is digital the choke points are easier to control, not harder.
    - adamnemecek 9y ago
      ofc But even opening an account abroad could be tricky. The thing is that restricting bitcoin is really hard.
    - aaomidi 9y ago
      How are you opening a bank account in a foreign country as a citizen from Iran? There are use cases for big money transfer and just "storing" money in BTC, not really for daily transactions.
    - lixtra 9y ago
      Good luck opening a bank account in Geneva as a US citizen. Unless you bring really a lot of cash they won't touch you with a 5 ft pole.
      - bradleyjg 9y ago
        If you consider the US an unstable country, I don't know what to tell you.
        9y ago
- tim333 9y ago
  Say hypothetically you lived in a place like Cuba where the government had banned things like renting out a room to foreigners or selling them a coffee as was the situation when I was there. Taking payment in the local currency would be kind of useless as you couldn't buy much with it and taking dollars, euros or whatever was illegal and could get you in prison if they caught you. However if your customer transferred some ether to a wallet you controlled with a private key but without your name on it it would be quite hard to catch or prove.
  - bradleyjg 9y ago
    Why would it be quite hard to catch or prove? How many fiber optic lines do you think go to Cuba? They could lock down the internet the same way China does. Maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet, but that's not a long term structural argument for the utility of cryptocoins its a temporary moment-in-time argument. Kind of like how at one point a big advantage of buying things on the web was that you didn't have to pay sales tax -- that's not anything inherent in the web, it was just an artifact of governments' lag.
    - tim333 9y ago
      Say your customers are us tourists and they send from a coinbase account to some ether address. Dunno how they'd track that. I don't think it's a lag thing - decentralized cryptocurrencies are just hard for governments to stop. Similar how governments would like to stop people paying cash in hand and avoiding tax but have never really been able.
philipov 9y ago
You can't opt out of the monetary system that's been imposed on you by your govt, because your govt's desires are backed by the use of force[0]. Short of moving to a different country, paying off the enforcers, or going into open rebellion, everything else is a fantasy. [0]: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- tim333 9y ago
  You can opt out to an extent by doing stuff offshore even without crypto.
  - acdha 9y ago
    That’s not an option for most people and it has huge risks. Try buying anything big with no disclosed income sources or living well beyond your means and you’ll be getting caught by the people looking for drugs dealers, smugglers, etc. Most countries are pretty good at that.
  - philipov 9y ago
    Yes, the gist of it is, you are not beholden to the monetary system if you have a lot of money. Tautological isn't quite the right word for this.

empath75 9y ago

Instead you can put your money into a pyramid scheme run by gangsters.

adamnemecek 9y ago
Kinda like the banking system?
- buttcoinslol 9y ago
  Better the devil you know. FDIC and SIPC instill a lot more confidence in me (and every single rational investor) than uh Bitfinex or Kraken.
  - adamnemecek 9y ago
    Store it in an offline wallet.

troels 9y ago

So does foreign currency

bradleyjg 9y ago

Why not just hold most of your savings in dollars, euros, swiss franks, or whatever? Doesn't that just as effectively opt you opt?

adamnemecek 9y ago
Let’s say you have to leave the country with all your saving. I’d much more comfortable carrying it in btc than cash.
- bradleyjg 9y ago
  You don't need to hold physical cash to hold USD. You could have a bank account in London, Geneva, Paris, or New York with your pounds, franks, euros, or dollars. If you need to leave the country, your savings are already outside of it. Just like your bitcoins. The answer seems to be that repressive countries haven't yet put in place effective mechanisms to be repressive with respect to bitcoins. But there's zero reason intrinsic to bitcoin to expect that to continue. On the contrary, since everything is digital the choke points are easier to control, not harder.
  - adamnemecek 9y ago
    ofc But even opening an account abroad could be tricky. The thing is that restricting bitcoin is really hard.
  - aaomidi 9y ago
    How are you opening a bank account in a foreign country as a citizen from Iran? There are use cases for big money transfer and just "storing" money in BTC, not really for daily transactions.
  - lixtra 9y ago
    Good luck opening a bank account in Geneva as a US citizen. Unless you bring really a lot of cash they won't touch you with a 5 ft pole.
    - bradleyjg 9y ago
      If you consider the US an unstable country, I don't know what to tell you.
      - 9y ago
tim333 9y ago
Say hypothetically you lived in a place like Cuba where the government had banned things like renting out a room to foreigners or selling them a coffee as was the situation when I was there. Taking payment in the local currency would be kind of useless as you couldn't buy much with it and taking dollars, euros or whatever was illegal and could get you in prison if they caught you. However if your customer transferred some ether to a wallet you controlled with a private key but without your name on it it would be quite hard to catch or prove.
- bradleyjg 9y ago
  Why would it be quite hard to catch or prove? How many fiber optic lines do you think go to Cuba? They could lock down the internet the same way China does. Maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet, but that's not a long term structural argument for the utility of cryptocoins its a temporary moment-in-time argument. Kind of like how at one point a big advantage of buying things on the web was that you didn't have to pay sales tax -- that's not anything inherent in the web, it was just an artifact of governments' lag.
  - tim333 9y ago
    Say your customers are us tourists and they send from a coinbase account to some ether address. Dunno how they'd track that. I don't think it's a lag thing - decentralized cryptocurrencies are just hard for governments to stop. Similar how governments would like to stop people paying cash in hand and avoiding tax but have never really been able.

philipov 9y ago

You can't opt out of the monetary system that's been imposed on you by your govt, because your govt's desires are backed by the use of force[0]. Short of moving to a different country, paying off the enforcers, or going into open rebellion, everything else is a fantasy. [0]: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/

tim333 9y ago
You can opt out to an extent by doing stuff offshore even without crypto.
- acdha 9y ago
  That’s not an option for most people and it has huge risks. Try buying anything big with no disclosed income sources or living well beyond your means and you’ll be getting caught by the people looking for drugs dealers, smugglers, etc. Most countries are pretty good at that.
- philipov 9y ago
  Yes, the gist of it is, you are not beholden to the monetary system if you have a lot of money. Tautological isn't quite the right word for this.