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I people didn't need cash this problem would go away. I think of this occasionally when I visit our local bagel shop, which like many bagel shops in the area do

I people didn't need cash this problem would go away. I think of this occasionally when I visit our local bagel shop, which like many bagel shops in the area does not take cards and has an atm onsite.

aaronblohowiak 9y ago
Tax fraud and/or transaction fees.
KozmoNau7 9y ago
On the other hand, if you pay by card everywhere, your moments and spending habits will be tracked and catalogued. A lot of people are not comfortable with that.
- grey-area 9y ago
  The vast majority carry an internet connected gps tracker with microphone, Wifi, Bluetooth, sms and email all in one place with them at all times, and bank accounts, sms, emails are already accessible to the state on the server side. Shops are using facial recognition and Bluetooth to advertise and track customers. So I honestly think privacy in what you purchase is a ship that has sailed, this data will be recorded in future. What we should be agitating for is proper control over the use of this info, not trying to limit ways to collect it.
  - tomalpha 9y ago
    In Europe, the General Data Protection Regulation supposedly does just this. There is a notable exception for “national security”, but it does at least help move in the right direction. https://www.csoonline.com/article/3202771/data-protection/general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr-requirements-deadlines-and-facts.html https://www.csoonline.com/article/3202771/data-protection/ge...
    - grey-area 9y ago
      Yes I agree that's the correct approach.
  - KozmoNau7 9y ago
    All of that can be turned off or circumvented, or you could even just leave the phone at home. But laws are tightening on cash payments, a lot of countries have already made cash transactions over a certain amount illegal. At the moment only for services, you can still exchange cash with your friends, but you may get a lot of scrutiny if you wish to deposit said cash into your bank account.
    - grey-area 9y ago
      Yes you can, but nobody does, because the inconvenience outweighs the advantages of increased privacy. Cash is doomed by the same problem - it's inconvenient, and also pretty insane to carry around paper tokens when we could carry digital ones. Even if you do manage to evade some tracking (e.g. by using cash) cameras are tracking you everywhere, we have facial recognition improving rapidly, car number plate tracking etc etc. At some point it will be possible to track your entire life with ease simply from following your movements, and it will be very difficult to circumvent without laws to control that sort of information. I do think it's more important to control the use of extensive personal information and tracking than to try to limit it, because limiting it simply won't work, and can be easily bypassed.
blensor 9y ago
I strongly hope that paper money is not completely replaced by electronic payments because it may be convenient as long as it works but I would like to still be able to buy food even when the service stops working. We had this in Austria a few months ago where one if the biggest providers for electronic payment terminals stopped working for 1 1/2 days
chiph 9y ago
I'd rather use cash than have my card info stolen (again).

aaronblohowiak 9y ago

Tax fraud and/or transaction fees.

KozmoNau7 9y ago

On the other hand, if you pay by card everywhere, your moments and spending habits will be tracked and catalogued. A lot of people are not comfortable with that.

grey-area 9y ago
The vast majority carry an internet connected gps tracker with microphone, Wifi, Bluetooth, sms and email all in one place with them at all times, and bank accounts, sms, emails are already accessible to the state on the server side. Shops are using facial recognition and Bluetooth to advertise and track customers. So I honestly think privacy in what you purchase is a ship that has sailed, this data will be recorded in future. What we should be agitating for is proper control over the use of this info, not trying to limit ways to collect it.
- tomalpha 9y ago
  In Europe, the General Data Protection Regulation supposedly does just this. There is a notable exception for “national security”, but it does at least help move in the right direction. https://www.csoonline.com/article/3202771/data-protection/general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr-requirements-deadlines-and-facts.html https://www.csoonline.com/article/3202771/data-protection/ge...
  - grey-area 9y ago
    Yes I agree that's the correct approach.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  All of that can be turned off or circumvented, or you could even just leave the phone at home. But laws are tightening on cash payments, a lot of countries have already made cash transactions over a certain amount illegal. At the moment only for services, you can still exchange cash with your friends, but you may get a lot of scrutiny if you wish to deposit said cash into your bank account.
  - grey-area 9y ago
    Yes you can, but nobody does, because the inconvenience outweighs the advantages of increased privacy. Cash is doomed by the same problem - it's inconvenient, and also pretty insane to carry around paper tokens when we could carry digital ones. Even if you do manage to evade some tracking (e.g. by using cash) cameras are tracking you everywhere, we have facial recognition improving rapidly, car number plate tracking etc etc. At some point it will be possible to track your entire life with ease simply from following your movements, and it will be very difficult to circumvent without laws to control that sort of information. I do think it's more important to control the use of extensive personal information and tracking than to try to limit it, because limiting it simply won't work, and can be easily bypassed.

blensor 9y ago

I strongly hope that paper money is not completely replaced by electronic payments because it may be convenient as long as it works but I would like to still be able to buy food even when the service stops working. We had this in Austria a few months ago where one if the biggest providers for electronic payment terminals stopped working for 1 1/2 days

chiph 9y ago

I'd rather use cash than have my card info stolen (again).