7 ms·

An island that switches countries every six months

149 points by appwiz 9y ago

skissane 9y ago
> This sort of joint sovereignty is called a condominium, and Faisans Island is one of the oldest in existence. I don't think this strictly counts as condominium. In a true condominium, France and Spain would exercise joint sovereignty 100% of the time. But in this case, they never exercise joint sovereignty, it is just they have agreed to transfer the single sovereignty of the territory back and forth on a regular basis. New Hebrides (now known as Vanuatu) was a true condominium in that 100% of the territory was under joint British-French sovereignty 100% of the time (until independence in 1980).
- jrcii 9y ago
  I'd call it alterdominium then.
ufmace 9y ago
Cool and weird! You'd think by now, they would have made some sort of agreement for one country to take it full-time, and the other to pay a modest price or give some other sort of diplomatic consideration. Guess nobody cares enough because it's so small and nobody lives there.
- Cogito 9y ago
  I like to think that rather there is no reason for either country to want the island full time, except to say they have it and the other does not, and plenty of reasons to keep a quirky tradition that serves as occasional reminder of an old treaty.
- toyg 9y ago
  It’s too small to be valuable, it’s actually more useful in the larger diplomatic game as a proof of goodwill on both sides. If it went to one country, inevitably someone wouldn’t agree with the decision and it could become a divisive symbol. I think both governments are actually happy that they get to share costs to maintain a slip of land nobody cares about anymore.
manmal 9y ago
My father‘s neighbor‘s garden covers more area than that. Isn’t the administrative cost within, say, 10 years, not higher than the asking price?
- lostlogin 9y ago
  You talk like a buyer...
tzs 9y ago
> For six months of the year, from February 1 to 31 July, it's under Spanish rule - and for the following six months it's French If I'm counting right, France has it 184 days per year (185 in leap years), and Spain has it 181 days. I wonder why they didn't balance that better? April 1 to Sept 30 for France and Aug 1 to March 31 for Spain would have given 183 for France and 182 for Spain (183 in leap years). The same balance would also arise from June 1 to November 30 for France and December 1 to May 31 for Spain.
- Reason077 9y ago
  It would hardly be fair if one country got to enjoy the island in the nice warm summer months, while the other only got it for the cold winter, would it?
  - petecox 9y ago
    Given that it's uninhabited, I don't think anyone enjoys it as such. It's located in what, either side of the river, was the medieval kingdom of Navarre, subsequently ruled by distant monarchs in Paris and Madrid.
- clort 9y ago
  Its because the French are sneaky[0]; See also the island of St Martin/Sint Maarten in the caribbean which is partitioned but the French got the bigger half because apparently the split was arranged whereby two men would walk around the coast in opposite directions and the border would be arranged from where they started to where they met. The French guy allegedly substituted the Dutch guys water with wine, meaning he laid down to sleep after lunch and the French guy was able to travel further. [0] not really, but its a great story; /me shoots cannon southwards
JshWright 9y ago
Google Maps currently shows it on the Spanish side of the border for me (despite that fact that it's France's "turn" for a few more days). I suspect this sort of detail isn't worth bothering with, but it is interesting...
- cbcoutinho 9y ago
  This is a pretty tame example, but Google is definitely active in delivering maps based on the viewers location in some more tumultuous parts of the world, for example the disputed borders of China/India/Pakistan in the kashmir region. https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.gislounge.com/the-politics-of-googles-mapping/amp/ https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.gislounge.com/the-politics-o...
  - majewsky 9y ago
    Link without AMP crap: https://www.gislounge.com/the-politics-of-googles-mapping/ https://www.gislounge.com/the-politics-of-googles-mapping/
    - fooker 9y ago
      Screenshot 'without AMP crap' : https://imgur.com/a/6i7ae https://imgur.com/a/6i7ae Screenshot with AMP : https://imgur.com/a/3IsGe https://imgur.com/a/3IsGe I hope you understand why people might prefer AMP.
      - majewsky 9y ago
        That's actually why I prefer adblockers.
        fooker 9y ago
        That is just digging your head in the sand. If everyone starts using adblockers, ads will no longer be blockable (say, just a dumb image). Accept it or not, ad revenue is how the internet runs at today's scale.
labster 9y ago
With the housing shortage, I'm surprised that no one has built condominiums on this condominium.
- ithkuil 9y ago
  Pun aside, allowing people to actually live there would open an interesting question. Would people be tax residents of France only just because it's 184 days under French rule vs. 181 days under Spanish?
  - terminalcommand 9y ago
    That problem would probably be solved by a bilateral agreement between France and Spain :)
  - lostlogin 9y ago
    Should you only pay tax where you live, or where you earn the money too?
    - tempay 9y ago
      In the EU this is a common issue in some areas where you can commute across a border each day. The rules are well established, albeit varying depending on which border is involved.[1] [1] https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/taxes/double-taxation/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/taxes/double-taxa...
    - wahern 9y ago
      No taxation without representation!
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- staz 9y ago
  Don't know about Spain, but in France the population concentrate in a few big cities, which are experiencing housing shortages, but the countryside is full of small towns getting abandoned due to lack of people living there.
dandare 9y ago
This could be one of the "Falsehoods programmers believe about" series. Imagine how this complicates maps, geography data etc. Obviously, unless you ignore the reality.
- beobab 9y ago
  Good point. This sort of thing serves to remind me that "Country" is an arbitrary label we humans put on geographical locations. The land doesn't care what country it belongs to.
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  I do believe it's mentioned, either in the article or in the discussion: https://wiesmann.codiferes.net/wordpress/?p=15187 https://wiesmann.codiferes.net/wordpress/?p=15187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14891185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14891185
RightMillennial 9y ago
> Next week, France will hand over 3,000 sq m (3,200 sq ft) of its territory to Spain without a single shot being fired. Those numbers don't add up. > The island is tiny - just over 200m long and 40m wide. Assuming the island is roughly an ellipse, it's area should be ~6,280 m^2 or ~67,400 ft^2. Wikipedia reports the island's area as 0.00682 km^2 (6,820 m^2) and 0.00263 mi^2 (73,300 ft^2) [1]. So the reported area is half of the actual area, and the U.S. conversion to feet is off by an order of magnitude. BBC should have someone double check the numbers. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheasant_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheasant_Island
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  It does say "over 3000 sq m." 6280 > 3000 ;) (The article also says that it's eroded and diminished recently)

149 points by appwiz 9y ago

> This sort of joint sovereignty is called a condominium, and Faisans Island is one of the oldest in existence. I don't think this strictly counts as condominium. In a true condominium, France and Spain would exercise joint sovereignty 100% of the time. But in this case, they never exercise joint sovereignty, it is just they have agreed to transfer the single sovereignty of the territory back and forth on a regular basis. New Hebrides (now known as Vanuatu) was a true condominium in that 100% of the territory was under joint British-French sovereignty 100% of the time (until independence in 1980).

jrcii 9y ago
I'd call it alterdominium then.

ufmace 9y ago

Cool and weird! You'd think by now, they would have made some sort of agreement for one country to take it full-time, and the other to pay a modest price or give some other sort of diplomatic consideration. Guess nobody cares enough because it's so small and nobody lives there.

Cogito 9y ago
I like to think that rather there is no reason for either country to want the island full time, except to say they have it and the other does not, and plenty of reasons to keep a quirky tradition that serves as occasional reminder of an old treaty.
toyg 9y ago
It’s too small to be valuable, it’s actually more useful in the larger diplomatic game as a proof of goodwill on both sides. If it went to one country, inevitably someone wouldn’t agree with the decision and it could become a divisive symbol. I think both governments are actually happy that they get to share costs to maintain a slip of land nobody cares about anymore.

manmal 9y ago

My father‘s neighbor‘s garden covers more area than that. Isn’t the administrative cost within, say, 10 years, not higher than the asking price?

lostlogin 9y ago
You talk like a buyer...

tzs 9y ago

> For six months of the year, from February 1 to 31 July, it's under Spanish rule - and for the following six months it's French If I'm counting right, France has it 184 days per year (185 in leap years), and Spain has it 181 days. I wonder why they didn't balance that better? April 1 to Sept 30 for France and Aug 1 to March 31 for Spain would have given 183 for France and 182 for Spain (183 in leap years). The same balance would also arise from June 1 to November 30 for France and December 1 to May 31 for Spain.

Reason077 9y ago
It would hardly be fair if one country got to enjoy the island in the nice warm summer months, while the other only got it for the cold winter, would it?
- petecox 9y ago
  Given that it's uninhabited, I don't think anyone enjoys it as such. It's located in what, either side of the river, was the medieval kingdom of Navarre, subsequently ruled by distant monarchs in Paris and Madrid.
clort 9y ago
Its because the French are sneaky[0]; See also the island of St Martin/Sint Maarten in the caribbean which is partitioned but the French got the bigger half because apparently the split was arranged whereby two men would walk around the coast in opposite directions and the border would be arranged from where they started to where they met. The French guy allegedly substituted the Dutch guys water with wine, meaning he laid down to sleep after lunch and the French guy was able to travel further. [0] not really, but its a great story; /me shoots cannon southwards

JshWright 9y ago

Google Maps currently shows it on the Spanish side of the border for me (despite that fact that it's France's "turn" for a few more days). I suspect this sort of detail isn't worth bothering with, but it is interesting...

cbcoutinho 9y ago
This is a pretty tame example, but Google is definitely active in delivering maps based on the viewers location in some more tumultuous parts of the world, for example the disputed borders of China/India/Pakistan in the kashmir region. https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.gislounge.com/the-politics-of-googles-mapping/amp/ https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.gislounge.com/the-politics-o...
- majewsky 9y ago
  Link without AMP crap: https://www.gislounge.com/the-politics-of-googles-mapping/ https://www.gislounge.com/the-politics-of-googles-mapping/
  - fooker 9y ago
    Screenshot 'without AMP crap' : https://imgur.com/a/6i7ae https://imgur.com/a/6i7ae Screenshot with AMP : https://imgur.com/a/3IsGe https://imgur.com/a/3IsGe I hope you understand why people might prefer AMP.
    - majewsky 9y ago
      That's actually why I prefer adblockers.
      - fooker 9y ago
        That is just digging your head in the sand. If everyone starts using adblockers, ads will no longer be blockable (say, just a dumb image). Accept it or not, ad revenue is how the internet runs at today's scale.

labster 9y ago

With the housing shortage, I'm surprised that no one has built condominiums on this condominium.

ithkuil 9y ago
Pun aside, allowing people to actually live there would open an interesting question. Would people be tax residents of France only just because it's 184 days under French rule vs. 181 days under Spanish?
- terminalcommand 9y ago
  That problem would probably be solved by a bilateral agreement between France and Spain :)
- lostlogin 9y ago
  Should you only pay tax where you live, or where you earn the money too?
  - tempay 9y ago
    In the EU this is a common issue in some areas where you can commute across a border each day. The rules are well established, albeit varying depending on which border is involved.[1] [1] https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/taxes/double-taxation/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/taxes/double-taxa...
  - wahern 9y ago
    No taxation without representation!
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
staz 9y ago
Don't know about Spain, but in France the population concentrate in a few big cities, which are experiencing housing shortages, but the countryside is full of small towns getting abandoned due to lack of people living there.

dandare 9y ago

This could be one of the "Falsehoods programmers believe about" series. Imagine how this complicates maps, geography data etc. Obviously, unless you ignore the reality.

beobab 9y ago
Good point. This sort of thing serves to remind me that "Country" is an arbitrary label we humans put on geographical locations. The land doesn't care what country it belongs to.
Piskvorrr 9y ago
I do believe it's mentioned, either in the article or in the discussion: https://wiesmann.codiferes.net/wordpress/?p=15187 https://wiesmann.codiferes.net/wordpress/?p=15187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14891185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14891185

RightMillennial 9y ago

> Next week, France will hand over 3,000 sq m (3,200 sq ft) of its territory to Spain without a single shot being fired. Those numbers don't add up. > The island is tiny - just over 200m long and 40m wide. Assuming the island is roughly an ellipse, it's area should be ~6,280 m^2 or ~67,400 ft^2. Wikipedia reports the island's area as 0.00682 km^2 (6,820 m^2) and 0.00263 mi^2 (73,300 ft^2) [1]. So the reported area is half of the actual area, and the U.S. conversion to feet is off by an order of magnitude. BBC should have someone double check the numbers. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheasant_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheasant_Island

Piskvorrr 9y ago
It does say "over 3000 sq m." 6280 > 3000 ;) (The article also says that it's eroded and diminished recently)