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> Craftsmanship is a lost art form these days. In my experience, that is not equally true everywhere in the world. It's certainly very true in the USA. In my

by zapita 9y ago

> Craftsmanship is a lost art form these days. In my experience, that is not equally true everywhere in the world. It's certainly very true in the USA. In my opinion that's partly because college and trade schools are so expensive. Unsurprinsingly, the result is students with less years of experience practicing their craft. I think this is mostly cultural. The original American craft is business. Everything else is seen through the lens of business. Everything becomes a hustle. Including things that really shouldn't, like teaching a craft, or learning one. In other cultures, the craft itself - practicing it, preserving it, transmitting it - is the priority, and business is a tool to achieve that end. Not so in the US. I don't know Australia (where I think you're from) but perhaps it's similar there?

cyberferret 9y ago
You are right - I am in Australia, and we tend to follow the trends of the USA etc. when it comes to building businesses here. It wasn't always like that though, and when I was younger, learning a trade or starting an apprenticeship was something that was highly valued and encouraged across most socio-economic groups. Sadly, that trend seems to be fading with more people encouraging their kids to complete tertiary education, get a degree and join the rat-race/hustle. I can recall when our town had its own 'go to' citizens where you knew you would get old fashioned expert craftsmanship and service when you needed your car services, or a cabinet made, or a haircut etc., but that tends to have become lost in a sea of bland, homogenised 'me too' businesses.
combatentropy 9y ago
As a lifelong citizen on the USA, I agree, and so does Paul Graham ("Made in the USA," http://www.paulgraham.com/usa.html http://www.paulgraham.com/usa.html). Most Americans are uninterested in craftsmanship. Actually, I think it's more basic. Most Americans are unaware of craftsmanship. They just do not understand what it is. They think it is a flourish that maybe adds 10%. A knife is a knife. If one costs three times as much because of "better craftsmanship," an American is likely to think that means it has some decorative etchings. A knife is a knife, so for most Americans, shopping is just about finding the cheapest one. They are all knives, so only a fool would pay $100 when you can get one for $10. They figure that the one that costs $100 is because its maker hasn't put together the most efficient factory, or that it somehow became fashionable, maybe because a movie star had one --- certainly not because it lasts longer, will stay sharper longer, or anything practical like that. Americans are sometimes okay with spending more on a particular manifestation of a general item. For example, it's okay to have an expensive car. But even then, they don't think Porsches are crafted better. It's that they look better (but for no objective reason, it's just what you like) and that they go faster (but not for any clever reason, they just have a big engine, what's so hard about that?). Or if you're not into sports cars, you might spend a bunch of money on a Jaguar. But the Jaguar is not a more comfortable ride because of more craftsmanship. It's just a matter of adding more padding to the seats and using bigger springs in the suspension. Anyone could do it. You just make things bigger. Bigger is better. More is always better. "Less is more," is some kind of Buddhist mantra by people who can't afford the nice things in life, so they kid themselves. There are many exceptions. For example, Steve Jobs. Also, I find that many craftsmen appreciate craftsmanship: a plumber, mechanic, or carpenter. The problem is that most Americans don't work in these blue-collar jobs. The goal is white-collar jobs, and maybe that is the root of the problem. In America there are so many ways to make money at a desk or through a clever deal, that that has become the aspiration.

by zapita 9y ago

cyberferret 9y ago

You are right - I am in Australia, and we tend to follow the trends of the USA etc. when it comes to building businesses here. It wasn't always like that though, and when I was younger, learning a trade or starting an apprenticeship was something that was highly valued and encouraged across most socio-economic groups. Sadly, that trend seems to be fading with more people encouraging their kids to complete tertiary education, get a degree and join the rat-race/hustle. I can recall when our town had its own 'go to' citizens where you knew you would get old fashioned expert craftsmanship and service when you needed your car services, or a cabinet made, or a haircut etc., but that tends to have become lost in a sea of bland, homogenised 'me too' businesses.

combatentropy 9y ago

As a lifelong citizen on the USA, I agree, and so does Paul Graham ("Made in the USA," http://www.paulgraham.com/usa.html http://www.paulgraham.com/usa.html). Most Americans are uninterested in craftsmanship. Actually, I think it's more basic. Most Americans are unaware of craftsmanship. They just do not understand what it is. They think it is a flourish that maybe adds 10%. A knife is a knife. If one costs three times as much because of "better craftsmanship," an American is likely to think that means it has some decorative etchings. A knife is a knife, so for most Americans, shopping is just about finding the cheapest one. They are all knives, so only a fool would pay $100 when you can get one for $10. They figure that the one that costs $100 is because its maker hasn't put together the most efficient factory, or that it somehow became fashionable, maybe because a movie star had one --- certainly not because it lasts longer, will stay sharper longer, or anything practical like that. Americans are sometimes okay with spending more on a particular manifestation of a general item. For example, it's okay to have an expensive car. But even then, they don't think Porsches are crafted better. It's that they look better (but for no objective reason, it's just what you like) and that they go faster (but not for any clever reason, they just have a big engine, what's so hard about that?). Or if you're not into sports cars, you might spend a bunch of money on a Jaguar. But the Jaguar is not a more comfortable ride because of more craftsmanship. It's just a matter of adding more padding to the seats and using bigger springs in the suspension. Anyone could do it. You just make things bigger. Bigger is better. More is always better. "Less is more," is some kind of Buddhist mantra by people who can't afford the nice things in life, so they kid themselves. There are many exceptions. For example, Steve Jobs. Also, I find that many craftsmen appreciate craftsmanship: a plumber, mechanic, or carpenter. The problem is that most Americans don't work in these blue-collar jobs. The goal is white-collar jobs, and maybe that is the root of the problem. In America there are so many ways to make money at a desk or through a clever deal, that that has become the aspiration.