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How Schopenhauer’s thought can illuminate a midlife crisis

268 points by lermontov 9y ago

colordrops 9y ago
tldr: it's about the journey, not the destination.
- sevensor 9y ago
  Which perhaps explains the purchase of a Corvette?
  - kruhft 9y ago
    No, you can just finally afford one during Middle Age. Big suprise. Unlike the rich kids when you were young.
dchess 9y ago
As a programmer approaching mid-life, I haven't found myself succumbing to this crisis. I wonder if that is largely due to the fact that gaining and maintaining expertise in programming is much more akin to these atelic activities he discusses. You can never really be done improving your skills. Projects come and go, but the buzz and hum of the new is constant and unreachable. For an autodidact like me, the thrill of learning something new is also a process I enjoy.
aphextron 9y ago
>It is no accident that the young and the old are generally more satisfied with life than those in middle age. I was sitting in my car looking at a stop sign the other day, and all of the sudden it started shaking uncontrollably. Immediately I knew it must be a child shaking it, as there was simply no other possibility. No other person would just stand there and shake a street sign for no purpose beyond its' own sake. There is no benefit, no reward, no ultimate reasoning beyond 'I want to shake this street sign". As I looked down, I was right, and the kid was grinning like crazy. We lose the ability to think like that as adults. It's not even that we have the thought and then consciously decide against it; we're incapable of even conceiving it. To just 'play' in life. And I think it's the most important aspect of our humanity. It is the very genesis of all our innovative and creative ideas, yet we treat it as something to be expelled in the process of "growing up".
- mlevental 9y ago
  >We lose the ability to think like that as adults. It's not even that we have the thought and then consciously decide against it; we're incapable of even conceiving it. i wholeheartedly disagree - you simply fall out of the habit of it. when i was in college i had a lot of sleepless nights and i wandered around campus "pulling on doorknobs". yes sometimes i got into places that i shouldn't have been but that's besides the point: i got back into the habit of touching things and experimenting. this was almost a decade ago now and i still pull on doorknobs, kick sign posts, peak through construction site barriers (nyc is perfect for this because every construction site fence has portholes). really of course the problem is obvious: people that don't think it's cute/funny/interesting are really put off by it (social pressure). young kids have less of that mediating their experience of their world (that's the key)
  - tossaway1 9y ago
    I don't avoid those things because of social pressure. I don't try random doorknobs because I wouldn't want people intruding on my space if I happened to leave a door unlocked by accident -- the fact that kids (and some adults apparently) don't think through such things is not some sort of admirable trait. I don't shake sign posts for fun because I've had to fix enough things in my life that I know how actions like that can weaken or destroy an object that most people consider very durable (or indestructible) and therefore would amount to vandalism for the sake of "fun".
    - mlevental 9y ago
      it's funny sometimes i read things or see things online and i can't begin to relate to the subject that wrote/created/said those things. this is going to seem roundabout but bear with me. here is a video of tourists lamenting the drowning of a zebra foal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAHysptvEfo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAHysptvEfo i can't fathom the subjecthood of the person wishing someone would interfere (this is a savannah in subsaharan africa presumably - there is no such thing as fair - it's a completely unintelligible notion). now it sounds like a young girl doing the lamenting so it makes sense that i can't relate. now you internet person >the fact that kids (and some adults apparently) don't think through such things is not some sort of admirable trait. i can't fathom your subject that you so miss the point that it is exactly this childhood naivete that the op is commenting on. of course children don't think through such things - they're children! they have no sense of property or privacy (nor should they!). this is exactly what op is saying he misses. besides that the sentence as written is essentially the negation of op's and so adds nothing. it doesn't suggest why it's important that no one intrude on your space, it doesn't explain why it's important for people to have private spaces, it doesn't explore anything. it's literally a no to a yes. >I don't shake sign posts for fun because I've had to fix enough things in my life that I know how actions like that can weaken or destroy an object that most people consider very durable (or indestructible) and therefore would amount to vandalism for the sake of "fun". you can choose to ascribe malice or mischief to everything that's the slightest destructive, you are free to do so, but you should at least for a moment consider whether conservation isn't the ultimate goal of life.
hprotagonist 9y ago
At least one answer to the conundrum of "not getting what you want is suffering; getting what you want is, too" that Schopenhauer identifies is serendipity. life/the universe/fate/god/chance/whatever will cause positives (and negatives) in your life that you didn't actively want. Since you never sought them out, not having them wasn't suffering. Now that you have them, appreciate them!
o2348diuu 9y ago
This piece hits close to home, as it's really clear to me I am going through a midlife crisis and have interesting parallels and contrasts with the author in terms of my career and next steps. What seems to me to be the heart of this piece is the telic-atelic distinction, which seems useful and deserving of more attention. There's some parallels, it seems, between the telic-atelic distinction on the one hand, and the distinction between more stereotypical "western" goal-oriented notions of success or happiness, and recent foci of mindfulness and other things having a kind of Buddhist bent. To me the telic-atelic distinction seems useful if for no other reason than to provide an additional historical and philosophical context to something gaining in the public consciousness. The atelic ideal seems similar to the mindfulness goals, but framed differently, in terms of types of rewards. For me, although useful, I'm not sure this explains all of the midlife crisis. Maybe a big chunk, but for me personally at least I'd say more of it is about feeling like I took a wrong turn with certain choices, and feeling like there's no way to get out of it due to the limits of lifespan and sociocultural failings (e.g., stereotypes about age, gender, and profession, and ability to change, etc.). For me it's been less about asking "is this all there is?" and more like feeling like I've come to the conclusion that my vocation is a fraud, or that I'm not a good fit, and that humans in general are far more flawed and darker than I realized. There were similar feelings about other things in my early adulthood, but I always felt I could change my life, improve things, and move to something else; the difference is now, I feel like the change is more substantial due to the costs and investments involved, and I feel like societal stereotypes and failings make it harder. There's also the limitations of lifespan which are very real and make things difficult. I feel profoundly disappointed in life and people, in the sense of being wronged, not in the sense of being bored. I don't want to feel this way, but am not sure how to get out of it.
- house9-2 9y ago
  > I don't want to feel this way, but am not sure how to get out of it. Start seeing a therapist, changed my life
- double0jimb0 9y ago
  >> I feel profoundly disappointed in life and people, in the sense of being wronged I suspect there is a notion of "things ought to be a certain/right way" in your view of things. I feel this defense is often used to justify to oneself why one hasn't engaged in something/the world. Said another way, it is safer to think things should work a certain way instead of risking for oneself to find out. It's never too late to find out directly.
dmix 9y ago
Years ago I accidentally came across a really good book that explores Schopenhauer's fascinating worldview through the lens of psychiatry and personal development, called "The Schopenhauer Cure", which got me hooked on Schopenhauer (and a lesser extent Nietzsche): https://www.amazon.com/Schopenhauer-Cure-Novel-Irvin-Yalom/dp/0060938102/ https://www.amazon.com/Schopenhauer-Cure-Novel-Irvin-Yalom/d... I highly recommend it to people who would consider themselves on the logical/intelligent end of the spectrum and who tend to pursue their work, accomplishments, and gaining knowledge above all else in life. It's also a great soft introduction to his work, without having to read dense 19th century philosophy. One of the most useful lessons I learn from Schopenhauer was to look beyond structuring your life around trying to be "happy" and avoiding being "sad", and instead seek some deeper meaning beyond some fleeting emotional chemical reactions in your brain. It makes me laugh now when I now laugh when I hear people say "money doesn't make you happy", not so much for the money part, but the fallacy of using an emotion like "being happy" as the measure for a quality life.
- dominotw 9y ago
  > trying to be "happy" Yea I never understood this modern obsession. Doesn't even make sense. Definition of mind is 'something that seeks' and seeking is contradictory to 'happiness'. Only way to be 'happy' is that if you mind is not functioning, dead.
- ebbv 9y ago
  > I now laugh when I hear people say "money doesn't make you happy", not so much for the money part, but the fallacy of using an emotion like "being happy" as the measure for a quality life. Oh come on. You know what they mean, you're being deliberately obtuse in order to characterize someone else as ignorant. Which only reflects badly on you. That old cliche may be trite and simplistic, but it's making a simple point that sometimes needs to be made; money won't solve all of your problems. Of course it does solve a lot of really bad problems, so it's also a bit of a myopic view.
  - dmix 9y ago
    > you're being deliberately obtuse in order to characterize someone else as ignorant That was merely one example of the phenomenon of our culture being obsessed with 'happiness' as the measure of success. There are countless other examples I could have used which doesn't require reading into someone's 'real meaning' when using a cliche. The general point still stands, 'happy' is still frequently used interchangably with 'a good life' in our culture. I can't count the amount of times I've heard people negatively judge other successful people's lives because they seemed dour or aren't walking around laughing/smiling all the time or some other surface level measures. That to me is what is arrogant. Nor because I laugh (in my head) when I come across people chasing temporary emotional highs or measuring the quality of other's lives based on that doesn't mean I'm belittling them or looking down upon them because they haven't made the same realizations or made similar psychological/philosophical/personal investments in their own life. I spent a big portion of my life doing the same, doesn't make me better.
allsunny 9y ago
I've got this bad, I am (or at least was) the stereotypical high achiever. I even have a sports car in the garage (don't do that, btw :). I've decided to slow down and focus on my family and myself, in pursuits that have no real reward except the enjoyment of the experience itself. "Being present", they say. Ultimately, I'm planning on getting out of the Bay Area to find something with less stress. I had a good run but the constant battle to climb higher just seems so silly now; I finally recognized the pattern of not having any real lasting happiness upon hitting some big achievement (the raise, the promotion, the qualification, whatever). My new modus operandi: Work to ensure there is money in the bank so I can retire as I'd like to, and then focus on family, friends, myself.
- telesilla 9y ago
  hey, don't forget to enjoy each day as it comes. loss can come at any time. focus on your family, friends and yourself THEN work. you can get everything you need done OK.
ebbv 9y ago
You have to enjoy the process of whatever it is you're doing. If your enjoyment relies totally on goals, that's how you end up in the situation Schopenhauer believed we are trapped in. Goals are good but you have to enjoy the journey. This is no big mystery. But it's something a lot of people overlook because choosing a goal is how you get started on a journey.
- esfandia 9y ago
  Yes, to use the terms of the article, it would be about turning the "telic" into an "atelic".
- iamcasen 9y ago
  True, and I think ultimately it is merely a fault in our thinking. Many people think "I'm going to suffer through this process because the end goal is worth it." Where they are wrong is equating a process that does not necessarily bring pure pleasure and joy with "suffering." You must be able to change your state of mind to see that there is no concept of pleasure without pain, there is no warmth without cold, and there is no joy without sadness. When we are sad, we should embrace it and revel in it as a natural part of life.
gilbetron 9y ago
My wife loves finishing a picture puzzle, the sense of accomplishment at creating order out of chaos helps her relax. I can't stand them, they are dull and repetitive and in the end you just have the same picture that was already on the box. A decade ago, I built a simple set of wooden stairs to replace the existing, poorly built concrete set. To this day I get a little burst of joy when I use them. People are different and get satisfaction from different goals, that's pretty obvious to most people. However, it can be difficult to find out what you actually gives you joy. Some of the people I know struggling with midlife issues went through life believing some great goal would be worth it, but once achieved, the found it lacking. It would be like if I spent 20 years building a great picture puzzle. I'd be having a major crisis when it was done. Academia is a big offender because you can't know if you'll be satisfied until you get there, and getting there takes a decade or two. Furthermore, what you get satisfaction from can change. Build a bunch of puzzles or stairs, and you may find it dull and unrewarding. I don't find actual coding as rewarding as it used to be, but I find design and problem solving much more interesting. I think the young and old part is misleading. People can get in such a malaise at any time. The key is finding the trick and techniques to get out of it, or even better, avoiding it in the first place.
- icc97 9y ago
  Being a craftsman is one of those never ending goals. You can always perfect them, or teach them to your kids.
- marmaduke 9y ago
  I jumped through the academic hoops, PhD postdoc but, as you point out, it wasn’t until after that I found it finally wasn’t satisfying.
jinfiesto 9y ago
I've gotten to a point where to me "results-oriented" is a four letter word. It's just a bad way to go about your life. Both for your sanity, and because it's more often than not just a wrong-headed way of thinking.
- ycombinete 9y ago
  I often have to remind myself that life is a series of processes interspersed with end-points, if you don't enjoy the process of getting to those endpoints you'll basically live in a series of panics.
pithic 9y ago
>the solution is to invest more fully in the process, giving meaning to your life through activities that have no terminal point Are there such activities? Even the more process-oriented ones, lacking final conclusions, have terminal milestones. The juggler will eventually master 4 balls; the violinist Paganini, etc.
- pretty_dumm_guy 9y ago
  Activities like preparing food for the homeless, tutoring poor kids etc., seems not to have terminal milestones to me. Please do correct me if I am wrong
tremendulo 9y ago
>then the solution is to invest more fully in the process, giving meaning to your life through activities that have no terminal point There has to be a potential endpoint or else there's no meaning. Pick a hard problem which you find intensely meaningful and take small steps each day towards solving it. As Karl Popper put it: 'I think there is only one way to do science – or to do philosophy for that matter; to meet a problem, to see its beauty and fall in love with it; to get married to it, and to live with it happily, till death do ye part - unless you should meet another and even more fascinating problem, or unless indeed you should obtain a solution. But even if you do obtain a solution you may then discover to your delight, the existence of a whole family of enchanting though perhaps difficult problem children for whose welfare you may work, with a purpose to the end of your days'
- strlen 9y ago
  Popper was a fan of Schopenhauer - while he rejected Schopenhauer's metaphysics of the Will, he positively quotes Schopenhauer in Open Society and its Enemies (especially in regards to Hegel). There's also evidence that Popper's interpretation of Kant is through Schopenhauer: the Principle of Sufficient Reason, the first book of World as Will and Representation, and the appendix to the first volume also function as a good emendation of and commentary upon on Kant's Critique of Pure Reason and Prolegomena.
albertTJames 9y ago
ok, so live in the present. thanks.
hawktheslayer 9y ago
While even Scott Adams will tell you to never take life advice from a cartoonist, his post on the meaning of life is a slightly different take then the one in the article and I find it inspiring. In a nutshell, we need to give more to others as we age. http://blog.dilbert.com/2014/11/18/a-life-well-lived/ http://blog.dilbert.com/2014/11/18/a-life-well-lived/
dpweb 9y ago
Many middle aged people are giving their entire lives to the generations older and younger. That general happiness curve over a lifetime seems to correspond with the level of responsibilities one has. But I suspect also that we are very much more programmed as far as our values and goals than we realize, and middle age as a natural point in life where depression sets in, a subconcious rebellion/angst against a life we are living that is fradulent not in tune with our true selves.
- arca_vorago 9y ago
  >a natural point in life where depression sets in, a subconcious rebellion/angst against a life we are living that is fradulent not in tune with our true selves. This is interesting because I feel like after the war I came back a middle aged man at 24 due to this feeling. I went through the motions in my professional career, but it all seemed so empty compared to what I used to do... so I spent the last ten years or so of my free time my career supported trying to study geopolitical and geostrategic issues because I found meaning in trying to understand why things are/were so damn fucked up, so perhaps as a problem solver I could fix some of them. (I have what are probably ridiculous aspirations of a presidential run someday.) So I was living a half fraudulent life in order to live a half self-true life, and the tension between the two was palpable. Near death (and near life) experiences really have a way of breaking that societal programming fast though. It's like when I went through what I call my Descartes reset. I took the red pill with the concious decision that I wanted to know the truth no matter how ugly it is... but that doesn't negate much of just how much impact the ugliness of truth can have on a person. Many people seem to have a subconcious awareness that they would prefer the beautiful lie due to that, but for some reason middle age tends to be the point in which those two forces butt heads, and sometimes people change course at that point. That's why I used to joke I was getting my midlife crisis out of the way early. The joke was on me though, ten years later I still struggle with that dichotomy. I'll finally be 35 in 2020, so do I pursue the grand purpose path and just try my hand at a run for POTUS despite my trepidations or do I focus on establishing a more down to earth life and focus on just living it while I can!? I don't know yet, but I do know that at some point soon I will have to make that decision and follow through with it. The real point is that I think we should self-analyze enough to make these decisions conciously before the uglier side-effects of dealing with them subconciously rear their heads in often desctructive ways, such as a midlife crisis.
randomstring 9y ago
Another book recommendation: How Schopenhauer Got Me Through My Mid-Life Crisis by Charles Alonso https://www.amazon.com/How-Schopenhauer-Through-Mid-Life-Crisis-ebook/dp/B00QXNB5PC/ https://www.amazon.com/How-Schopenhauer-Through-Mid-Life-Cri... It's fiction, funny, philosophical, about middle age and a quick read.
abusoufiyan 9y ago
Philosophers have had a lot to say about middle age! European philosophers may not have, but the works of Confucius etc are almost entirely all revolving around middle aged men.
el_cid 9y ago
I think an adult extracts joy from other sources, which kids (or undeveloped adults) can't appreciate yet. The kid shakes the sign because for him it's a novelty, a new experience. He is curious about the world and discovers it through little 'experiments'. But adults do the same, they learn new things, they have hobbies, visit new places, try out new foods, learn new languages, work on personal projects...

268 points by lermontov 9y ago

colordrops 9y ago

tldr: it's about the journey, not the destination.

sevensor 9y ago
Which perhaps explains the purchase of a Corvette?
- kruhft 9y ago
  No, you can just finally afford one during Middle Age. Big suprise. Unlike the rich kids when you were young.

dchess 9y ago

As a programmer approaching mid-life, I haven't found myself succumbing to this crisis. I wonder if that is largely due to the fact that gaining and maintaining expertise in programming is much more akin to these atelic activities he discusses. You can never really be done improving your skills. Projects come and go, but the buzz and hum of the new is constant and unreachable. For an autodidact like me, the thrill of learning something new is also a process I enjoy.

aphextron 9y ago

>It is no accident that the young and the old are generally more satisfied with life than those in middle age. I was sitting in my car looking at a stop sign the other day, and all of the sudden it started shaking uncontrollably. Immediately I knew it must be a child shaking it, as there was simply no other possibility. No other person would just stand there and shake a street sign for no purpose beyond its' own sake. There is no benefit, no reward, no ultimate reasoning beyond 'I want to shake this street sign". As I looked down, I was right, and the kid was grinning like crazy. We lose the ability to think like that as adults. It's not even that we have the thought and then consciously decide against it; we're incapable of even conceiving it. To just 'play' in life. And I think it's the most important aspect of our humanity. It is the very genesis of all our innovative and creative ideas, yet we treat it as something to be expelled in the process of "growing up".

mlevental 9y ago
>We lose the ability to think like that as adults. It's not even that we have the thought and then consciously decide against it; we're incapable of even conceiving it. i wholeheartedly disagree - you simply fall out of the habit of it. when i was in college i had a lot of sleepless nights and i wandered around campus "pulling on doorknobs". yes sometimes i got into places that i shouldn't have been but that's besides the point: i got back into the habit of touching things and experimenting. this was almost a decade ago now and i still pull on doorknobs, kick sign posts, peak through construction site barriers (nyc is perfect for this because every construction site fence has portholes). really of course the problem is obvious: people that don't think it's cute/funny/interesting are really put off by it (social pressure). young kids have less of that mediating their experience of their world (that's the key)
- tossaway1 9y ago
  I don't avoid those things because of social pressure. I don't try random doorknobs because I wouldn't want people intruding on my space if I happened to leave a door unlocked by accident -- the fact that kids (and some adults apparently) don't think through such things is not some sort of admirable trait. I don't shake sign posts for fun because I've had to fix enough things in my life that I know how actions like that can weaken or destroy an object that most people consider very durable (or indestructible) and therefore would amount to vandalism for the sake of "fun".
  - mlevental 9y ago
    it's funny sometimes i read things or see things online and i can't begin to relate to the subject that wrote/created/said those things. this is going to seem roundabout but bear with me. here is a video of tourists lamenting the drowning of a zebra foal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAHysptvEfo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAHysptvEfo i can't fathom the subjecthood of the person wishing someone would interfere (this is a savannah in subsaharan africa presumably - there is no such thing as fair - it's a completely unintelligible notion). now it sounds like a young girl doing the lamenting so it makes sense that i can't relate. now you internet person >the fact that kids (and some adults apparently) don't think through such things is not some sort of admirable trait. i can't fathom your subject that you so miss the point that it is exactly this childhood naivete that the op is commenting on. of course children don't think through such things - they're children! they have no sense of property or privacy (nor should they!). this is exactly what op is saying he misses. besides that the sentence as written is essentially the negation of op's and so adds nothing. it doesn't suggest why it's important that no one intrude on your space, it doesn't explain why it's important for people to have private spaces, it doesn't explore anything. it's literally a no to a yes. >I don't shake sign posts for fun because I've had to fix enough things in my life that I know how actions like that can weaken or destroy an object that most people consider very durable (or indestructible) and therefore would amount to vandalism for the sake of "fun". you can choose to ascribe malice or mischief to everything that's the slightest destructive, you are free to do so, but you should at least for a moment consider whether conservation isn't the ultimate goal of life.

hprotagonist 9y ago

At least one answer to the conundrum of "not getting what you want is suffering; getting what you want is, too" that Schopenhauer identifies is serendipity. life/the universe/fate/god/chance/whatever will cause positives (and negatives) in your life that you didn't actively want. Since you never sought them out, not having them wasn't suffering. Now that you have them, appreciate them!

o2348diuu 9y ago

This piece hits close to home, as it's really clear to me I am going through a midlife crisis and have interesting parallels and contrasts with the author in terms of my career and next steps. What seems to me to be the heart of this piece is the telic-atelic distinction, which seems useful and deserving of more attention. There's some parallels, it seems, between the telic-atelic distinction on the one hand, and the distinction between more stereotypical "western" goal-oriented notions of success or happiness, and recent foci of mindfulness and other things having a kind of Buddhist bent. To me the telic-atelic distinction seems useful if for no other reason than to provide an additional historical and philosophical context to something gaining in the public consciousness. The atelic ideal seems similar to the mindfulness goals, but framed differently, in terms of types of rewards. For me, although useful, I'm not sure this explains all of the midlife crisis. Maybe a big chunk, but for me personally at least I'd say more of it is about feeling like I took a wrong turn with certain choices, and feeling like there's no way to get out of it due to the limits of lifespan and sociocultural failings (e.g., stereotypes about age, gender, and profession, and ability to change, etc.). For me it's been less about asking "is this all there is?" and more like feeling like I've come to the conclusion that my vocation is a fraud, or that I'm not a good fit, and that humans in general are far more flawed and darker than I realized. There were similar feelings about other things in my early adulthood, but I always felt I could change my life, improve things, and move to something else; the difference is now, I feel like the change is more substantial due to the costs and investments involved, and I feel like societal stereotypes and failings make it harder. There's also the limitations of lifespan which are very real and make things difficult. I feel profoundly disappointed in life and people, in the sense of being wronged, not in the sense of being bored. I don't want to feel this way, but am not sure how to get out of it.

house9-2 9y ago
> I don't want to feel this way, but am not sure how to get out of it. Start seeing a therapist, changed my life
double0jimb0 9y ago
>> I feel profoundly disappointed in life and people, in the sense of being wronged I suspect there is a notion of "things ought to be a certain/right way" in your view of things. I feel this defense is often used to justify to oneself why one hasn't engaged in something/the world. Said another way, it is safer to think things should work a certain way instead of risking for oneself to find out. It's never too late to find out directly.

dmix 9y ago

Years ago I accidentally came across a really good book that explores Schopenhauer's fascinating worldview through the lens of psychiatry and personal development, called "The Schopenhauer Cure", which got me hooked on Schopenhauer (and a lesser extent Nietzsche): https://www.amazon.com/Schopenhauer-Cure-Novel-Irvin-Yalom/dp/0060938102/ https://www.amazon.com/Schopenhauer-Cure-Novel-Irvin-Yalom/d... I highly recommend it to people who would consider themselves on the logical/intelligent end of the spectrum and who tend to pursue their work, accomplishments, and gaining knowledge above all else in life. It's also a great soft introduction to his work, without having to read dense 19th century philosophy. One of the most useful lessons I learn from Schopenhauer was to look beyond structuring your life around trying to be "happy" and avoiding being "sad", and instead seek some deeper meaning beyond some fleeting emotional chemical reactions in your brain. It makes me laugh now when I now laugh when I hear people say "money doesn't make you happy", not so much for the money part, but the fallacy of using an emotion like "being happy" as the measure for a quality life.

dominotw 9y ago
> trying to be "happy" Yea I never understood this modern obsession. Doesn't even make sense. Definition of mind is 'something that seeks' and seeking is contradictory to 'happiness'. Only way to be 'happy' is that if you mind is not functioning, dead.
ebbv 9y ago
> I now laugh when I hear people say "money doesn't make you happy", not so much for the money part, but the fallacy of using an emotion like "being happy" as the measure for a quality life. Oh come on. You know what they mean, you're being deliberately obtuse in order to characterize someone else as ignorant. Which only reflects badly on you. That old cliche may be trite and simplistic, but it's making a simple point that sometimes needs to be made; money won't solve all of your problems. Of course it does solve a lot of really bad problems, so it's also a bit of a myopic view.
- dmix 9y ago
  > you're being deliberately obtuse in order to characterize someone else as ignorant That was merely one example of the phenomenon of our culture being obsessed with 'happiness' as the measure of success. There are countless other examples I could have used which doesn't require reading into someone's 'real meaning' when using a cliche. The general point still stands, 'happy' is still frequently used interchangably with 'a good life' in our culture. I can't count the amount of times I've heard people negatively judge other successful people's lives because they seemed dour or aren't walking around laughing/smiling all the time or some other surface level measures. That to me is what is arrogant. Nor because I laugh (in my head) when I come across people chasing temporary emotional highs or measuring the quality of other's lives based on that doesn't mean I'm belittling them or looking down upon them because they haven't made the same realizations or made similar psychological/philosophical/personal investments in their own life. I spent a big portion of my life doing the same, doesn't make me better.

allsunny 9y ago

I've got this bad, I am (or at least was) the stereotypical high achiever. I even have a sports car in the garage (don't do that, btw :). I've decided to slow down and focus on my family and myself, in pursuits that have no real reward except the enjoyment of the experience itself. "Being present", they say. Ultimately, I'm planning on getting out of the Bay Area to find something with less stress. I had a good run but the constant battle to climb higher just seems so silly now; I finally recognized the pattern of not having any real lasting happiness upon hitting some big achievement (the raise, the promotion, the qualification, whatever). My new modus operandi: Work to ensure there is money in the bank so I can retire as I'd like to, and then focus on family, friends, myself.

telesilla 9y ago
hey, don't forget to enjoy each day as it comes. loss can come at any time. focus on your family, friends and yourself THEN work. you can get everything you need done OK.

ebbv 9y ago

You have to enjoy the process of whatever it is you're doing. If your enjoyment relies totally on goals, that's how you end up in the situation Schopenhauer believed we are trapped in. Goals are good but you have to enjoy the journey. This is no big mystery. But it's something a lot of people overlook because choosing a goal is how you get started on a journey.

esfandia 9y ago
Yes, to use the terms of the article, it would be about turning the "telic" into an "atelic".
iamcasen 9y ago
True, and I think ultimately it is merely a fault in our thinking. Many people think "I'm going to suffer through this process because the end goal is worth it." Where they are wrong is equating a process that does not necessarily bring pure pleasure and joy with "suffering." You must be able to change your state of mind to see that there is no concept of pleasure without pain, there is no warmth without cold, and there is no joy without sadness. When we are sad, we should embrace it and revel in it as a natural part of life.

gilbetron 9y ago

My wife loves finishing a picture puzzle, the sense of accomplishment at creating order out of chaos helps her relax. I can't stand them, they are dull and repetitive and in the end you just have the same picture that was already on the box. A decade ago, I built a simple set of wooden stairs to replace the existing, poorly built concrete set. To this day I get a little burst of joy when I use them. People are different and get satisfaction from different goals, that's pretty obvious to most people. However, it can be difficult to find out what you actually gives you joy. Some of the people I know struggling with midlife issues went through life believing some great goal would be worth it, but once achieved, the found it lacking. It would be like if I spent 20 years building a great picture puzzle. I'd be having a major crisis when it was done. Academia is a big offender because you can't know if you'll be satisfied until you get there, and getting there takes a decade or two. Furthermore, what you get satisfaction from can change. Build a bunch of puzzles or stairs, and you may find it dull and unrewarding. I don't find actual coding as rewarding as it used to be, but I find design and problem solving much more interesting. I think the young and old part is misleading. People can get in such a malaise at any time. The key is finding the trick and techniques to get out of it, or even better, avoiding it in the first place.

icc97 9y ago
Being a craftsman is one of those never ending goals. You can always perfect them, or teach them to your kids.
marmaduke 9y ago
I jumped through the academic hoops, PhD postdoc but, as you point out, it wasn’t until after that I found it finally wasn’t satisfying.

jinfiesto 9y ago

I've gotten to a point where to me "results-oriented" is a four letter word. It's just a bad way to go about your life. Both for your sanity, and because it's more often than not just a wrong-headed way of thinking.

ycombinete 9y ago
I often have to remind myself that life is a series of processes interspersed with end-points, if you don't enjoy the process of getting to those endpoints you'll basically live in a series of panics.

pithic 9y ago

>the solution is to invest more fully in the process, giving meaning to your life through activities that have no terminal point Are there such activities? Even the more process-oriented ones, lacking final conclusions, have terminal milestones. The juggler will eventually master 4 balls; the violinist Paganini, etc.

pretty_dumm_guy 9y ago
Activities like preparing food for the homeless, tutoring poor kids etc., seems not to have terminal milestones to me. Please do correct me if I am wrong

tremendulo 9y ago

>then the solution is to invest more fully in the process, giving meaning to your life through activities that have no terminal point There has to be a potential endpoint or else there's no meaning. Pick a hard problem which you find intensely meaningful and take small steps each day towards solving it. As Karl Popper put it: 'I think there is only one way to do science – or to do philosophy for that matter; to meet a problem, to see its beauty and fall in love with it; to get married to it, and to live with it happily, till death do ye part - unless you should meet another and even more fascinating problem, or unless indeed you should obtain a solution. But even if you do obtain a solution you may then discover to your delight, the existence of a whole family of enchanting though perhaps difficult problem children for whose welfare you may work, with a purpose to the end of your days'

strlen 9y ago
Popper was a fan of Schopenhauer - while he rejected Schopenhauer's metaphysics of the Will, he positively quotes Schopenhauer in Open Society and its Enemies (especially in regards to Hegel). There's also evidence that Popper's interpretation of Kant is through Schopenhauer: the Principle of Sufficient Reason, the first book of World as Will and Representation, and the appendix to the first volume also function as a good emendation of and commentary upon on Kant's Critique of Pure Reason and Prolegomena.

albertTJames 9y ago

ok, so live in the present. thanks.

hawktheslayer 9y ago

While even Scott Adams will tell you to never take life advice from a cartoonist, his post on the meaning of life is a slightly different take then the one in the article and I find it inspiring. In a nutshell, we need to give more to others as we age. http://blog.dilbert.com/2014/11/18/a-life-well-lived/ http://blog.dilbert.com/2014/11/18/a-life-well-lived/

dpweb 9y ago

Many middle aged people are giving their entire lives to the generations older and younger. That general happiness curve over a lifetime seems to correspond with the level of responsibilities one has. But I suspect also that we are very much more programmed as far as our values and goals than we realize, and middle age as a natural point in life where depression sets in, a subconcious rebellion/angst against a life we are living that is fradulent not in tune with our true selves.

arca_vorago 9y ago
>a natural point in life where depression sets in, a subconcious rebellion/angst against a life we are living that is fradulent not in tune with our true selves. This is interesting because I feel like after the war I came back a middle aged man at 24 due to this feeling. I went through the motions in my professional career, but it all seemed so empty compared to what I used to do... so I spent the last ten years or so of my free time my career supported trying to study geopolitical and geostrategic issues because I found meaning in trying to understand why things are/were so damn fucked up, so perhaps as a problem solver I could fix some of them. (I have what are probably ridiculous aspirations of a presidential run someday.) So I was living a half fraudulent life in order to live a half self-true life, and the tension between the two was palpable. Near death (and near life) experiences really have a way of breaking that societal programming fast though. It's like when I went through what I call my Descartes reset. I took the red pill with the concious decision that I wanted to know the truth no matter how ugly it is... but that doesn't negate much of just how much impact the ugliness of truth can have on a person. Many people seem to have a subconcious awareness that they would prefer the beautiful lie due to that, but for some reason middle age tends to be the point in which those two forces butt heads, and sometimes people change course at that point. That's why I used to joke I was getting my midlife crisis out of the way early. The joke was on me though, ten years later I still struggle with that dichotomy. I'll finally be 35 in 2020, so do I pursue the grand purpose path and just try my hand at a run for POTUS despite my trepidations or do I focus on establishing a more down to earth life and focus on just living it while I can!? I don't know yet, but I do know that at some point soon I will have to make that decision and follow through with it. The real point is that I think we should self-analyze enough to make these decisions conciously before the uglier side-effects of dealing with them subconciously rear their heads in often desctructive ways, such as a midlife crisis.

randomstring 9y ago

Another book recommendation: How Schopenhauer Got Me Through My Mid-Life Crisis by Charles Alonso https://www.amazon.com/How-Schopenhauer-Through-Mid-Life-Crisis-ebook/dp/B00QXNB5PC/ https://www.amazon.com/How-Schopenhauer-Through-Mid-Life-Cri... It's fiction, funny, philosophical, about middle age and a quick read.

abusoufiyan 9y ago

Philosophers have had a lot to say about middle age! European philosophers may not have, but the works of Confucius etc are almost entirely all revolving around middle aged men.

el_cid 9y ago

I think an adult extracts joy from other sources, which kids (or undeveloped adults) can't appreciate yet. The kid shakes the sign because for him it's a novelty, a new experience. He is curious about the world and discovers it through little 'experiments'. But adults do the same, they learn new things, they have hobbies, visit new places, try out new foods, learn new languages, work on personal projects...