3 ms·

There are many facets to this debate that aren't discussed in the news. One is that without immigration, the population of the US would decrease based on birth

There are many facets to this debate that aren't discussed in the news. One is that without immigration, the population of the US would decrease based on birth / death rates. If the population of the US decreases, social security and other social programs become insolvent. In other words, our social programs are based off the current working generation paying for the current retired generation, and has since their inception. It's a complex issue, and benefits vary from region to region. The powers (with big microphones) that are trying to sway you one way or the other only focus on a few simple things.

sheepmullet 9y ago
> and benefits vary from region to region. Like rich techies in SV get to enjoy cheap house cleaning and exotic food while poor people in other parts of the country drug out on opioids because the future is so bleak.
AnthonyMouse 9y ago
> One is that without immigration, the population of the US would decrease based on birth / death rates. If the population of the US decreases, social security and other social programs become insolvent. In other words, our social programs are based off the current working generation paying for the current retired generation, and has since their inception. Which is a fine argument for granting citizenship to skilled workers in industries with low unemployment, but a counterargument to taking large numbers of unskilled workers during a glut of unskilled workers. To make the system solvent, you need to increase the number of gainfully employed middle class people, not increase the number of unemployed and underpaid people who need net social assistance because there are more unskilled workers but only the same number of unskilled jobs.
- JBlue42 9y ago
  Won't those unskilled workers return if there is no work, just like we've had seasonal migration of farm workers in the past? Farm automation will probably take care of a lot of those jobs.
  - sheepmullet 9y ago
    > Won't those unskilled workers return if there is no work It depends - if there is no work in the US then there is probably no work where they have come from.
  - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
    > Won't those unskilled workers return if there is no work, just like we've had seasonal migration of farm workers in the past? It isn't that there are zero jobs, it's that there are more workers than jobs. Add even more workers and some of the new workers will get some of the jobs. And they could get a disproportionate share of the jobs by being willing to work for less money. Which compounds the problem, by both reducing wages for the entire class (increasing the consumption of need-based services) and reducing the government's tax receipts from each lower-paid worker's social security and other taxes.

sheepmullet 9y ago

> and benefits vary from region to region. Like rich techies in SV get to enjoy cheap house cleaning and exotic food while poor people in other parts of the country drug out on opioids because the future is so bleak.

AnthonyMouse 9y ago

> One is that without immigration, the population of the US would decrease based on birth / death rates. If the population of the US decreases, social security and other social programs become insolvent. In other words, our social programs are based off the current working generation paying for the current retired generation, and has since their inception. Which is a fine argument for granting citizenship to skilled workers in industries with low unemployment, but a counterargument to taking large numbers of unskilled workers during a glut of unskilled workers. To make the system solvent, you need to increase the number of gainfully employed middle class people, not increase the number of unemployed and underpaid people who need net social assistance because there are more unskilled workers but only the same number of unskilled jobs.

JBlue42 9y ago
Won't those unskilled workers return if there is no work, just like we've had seasonal migration of farm workers in the past? Farm automation will probably take care of a lot of those jobs.
- sheepmullet 9y ago
  > Won't those unskilled workers return if there is no work It depends - if there is no work in the US then there is probably no work where they have come from.
- AnthonyMouse 9y ago
  > Won't those unskilled workers return if there is no work, just like we've had seasonal migration of farm workers in the past? It isn't that there are zero jobs, it's that there are more workers than jobs. Add even more workers and some of the new workers will get some of the jobs. And they could get a disproportionate share of the jobs by being willing to work for less money. Which compounds the problem, by both reducing wages for the entire class (increasing the consumption of need-based services) and reducing the government's tax receipts from each lower-paid worker's social security and other taxes.