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One of my clients does license plate reading and tracking. They have hundreds of tiny customers, and a handful of VERY LARGER customers, so I can say with 100%

One of my clients does license plate reading and tracking. They have hundreds of tiny customers, and a handful of VERY LARGER customers, so I can say with 100% certainty, there are hundreds of agencies across the USA already doing this. For fun, I tracked my rental car from Georgia to Texas after a vacation a few months back to see how often I hit one of my client's customer's cameras. It was a lot. I saw myself hit toll booths, go under over passes, and parked at a service station. About 25 hits that my account had access to (probably hundreds or thousands that I didn't have rights to see).

ams6110 9y ago
IIRC there's an episode of Jay Leno's Garage that features a cop with a license plate reader. He can sit on the side of the road and every car that passes is scanned and checked for warrants. The answer comes back about as quickly as the speed reading on a radar gun. What they don't tell you is that all those plate numbers are going into a database, time- and location-stamped.
- jermaustin1 9y ago
  Yep, and there are agencies all over the US that share data between themselves to get access to much larger sets of data. So when a cop pulls you over in Dallas because you have a warrant in Atlanta, you now know how he figured that out.
- mehrdadn 9y ago
  > The answer comes back about as quickly as the speed reading on a radar gun. This isn't surprising. Why wouldn't it? They just need to cache that day's data, right?
  - jermaustin1 9y ago
    Depends on the vendor and the product, but that is pretty accurate. Some vendors send the plate over the network to check, some download the latest data to the cop-puter daily. Some hourly, and some get pushed updates as they happen.
- JBlue42 9y ago
  Pretty sure LAPD does this too.
- MAGZine 9y ago
  In Saskatchewan, Canada, they no longer require yearly insurance stickers on plates because the information is automatically checked by plate scanners on cop cars (to the best of my knowledge). The officer will still require proof of registration when pulled over.
  - fyfy18 9y ago
    Same with road tax in the U.K. since 2014. The government used this as an opportunity to start enforcing the rule that vehicle excise duty is not transferable after a sale. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/abolition-of-paper-car-tax-disc-why-are-drivers-being-fined-and-having-vehicles-towed-away-10171919.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/abolition-of-paper-car-...
  - doikor 9y ago
    We've had this since 1997 for car tax stickers in Finland when they decided it was easier to just install a computer in every cop car that has the db. Same db also has info on insurance and inspections and also the check has been recently made automatic on the camera when previously the officer had to manually enter the plate. I wouldn't be surprised if the data about the scans goes the other way too. Proof of registration was made electronic in 2016 and again checked on the computer. Driving a car isn't a right but a privilege so I'm on with this.
    - syrrim 9y ago
      >Driving a car isn't a right but a privilege so I'm ok with this That's an interesting perspective. I get it in the sense of safe driving - if you are swerving all about the road, you shouldn't be on the road - but it doesn't work so well for registration and tracking. Bare minimum, people should have a right to get around. So much of what people want to do in their life is beyond walking distance, that some method of transport is necessary to get there. This isn't a political right, but rather a pratical right - something that people need to be able to do to live a full life. At the extreme, house arrest involes banning a person from going anywhere, and is clearly a (perhaps necessary) breach of their rights. In particularly rural areas, banning someone from owning a car would amount to banning them from going anywhere. So I think it makes sense to say someone has a right to own a car. We ban poor drivers from the road merely because other rights are more important than driving is. For example, my right to safety is more important than your right to drive. If your dangerous driving puts my safety in question, than you should be taken off the road. However, if you manage to drive without infringing other's rights, than the government shouldn't be able to stop you from driving.
oculusthrift 9y ago
then why does it take so long to find kidnapped kids when we know the car the perp is in?
- RyanZAG 9y ago
  Just because the data exists doesn't mean it is used.
- code_duck 9y ago
  They’re probably busy using the data to find drug money or something else that they’re actually interested in.
  - jermaustin1 9y ago
    You are getting down voted, but you are accurate. The agencies have to pay for them some how, and money busts (not drugs, though related to drugs) are the best way. It doesn't mean they prioritize those crimes over kidnappings, but it means the department that gets access to the system first until it's are paid off is the narcotics division.
Andrenid 9y ago
What do they do with the data? Is it just for law enforcement to find people, or is there value in the data?
- jermaustin1 9y ago
  There are a few vendors out there who sell the data they collect, and then sell search capabilities to law enforcement agencies, repo firms, bounty hunters, etc. These camera systems are usually installed on civilian cars and those people just drive around all day on 10 hours shifts around their territory. They aren't looking for people, only collecting the data. Some of them get rights to add cameras to signs in front of shopping centers on busy streets. Some have even illegally placed them next to red light cameras that use an open wi-fi to upload the data back to their database. Its the wild west for some of these guys, but they make almost no money once you account for the cost of the cameras, cost of staff to drive around, etc.
NotSammyHagar 9y ago
This is the most terrifying thing I've seen that moves us toward the potential for real authoritarian societal control. The reason is we have a terrible history of being able to legally correct incorrect information in these separate local and national databases. So you can use this as another way to suppress disagreements and suppress protests against those in power. I'm an american citizen and it's my right to protect. Imagine there's a big protest and the next day the local police or fbi comes to your house to ask why you were in the neighborhood where the protest was. It can happen now. I can turn off my phone or choose not to take it, but transportation is required to get there. My bus pass is also a history of my travels. I just contacted my us rep and senators about this. I would be surprised if we can stop this, but we should try. Read David Brin's "Kiln People" for an interesting take, he foresaw this issue, also read "Transparency"
EADGBE 9y ago
It never really bothered me that police cars contained these cameras. But for some weird reason civilian cars carrying these cameras (and collecting and re-selling my plate information) really infuriates me.

ams6110 9y ago

IIRC there's an episode of Jay Leno's Garage that features a cop with a license plate reader. He can sit on the side of the road and every car that passes is scanned and checked for warrants. The answer comes back about as quickly as the speed reading on a radar gun. What they don't tell you is that all those plate numbers are going into a database, time- and location-stamped.

jermaustin1 9y ago
Yep, and there are agencies all over the US that share data between themselves to get access to much larger sets of data. So when a cop pulls you over in Dallas because you have a warrant in Atlanta, you now know how he figured that out.
mehrdadn 9y ago
> The answer comes back about as quickly as the speed reading on a radar gun. This isn't surprising. Why wouldn't it? They just need to cache that day's data, right?
- jermaustin1 9y ago
  Depends on the vendor and the product, but that is pretty accurate. Some vendors send the plate over the network to check, some download the latest data to the cop-puter daily. Some hourly, and some get pushed updates as they happen.
JBlue42 9y ago
Pretty sure LAPD does this too.
MAGZine 9y ago
In Saskatchewan, Canada, they no longer require yearly insurance stickers on plates because the information is automatically checked by plate scanners on cop cars (to the best of my knowledge). The officer will still require proof of registration when pulled over.
- fyfy18 9y ago
  Same with road tax in the U.K. since 2014. The government used this as an opportunity to start enforcing the rule that vehicle excise duty is not transferable after a sale. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/abolition-of-paper-car-tax-disc-why-are-drivers-being-fined-and-having-vehicles-towed-away-10171919.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/abolition-of-paper-car-...
- doikor 9y ago
  We've had this since 1997 for car tax stickers in Finland when they decided it was easier to just install a computer in every cop car that has the db. Same db also has info on insurance and inspections and also the check has been recently made automatic on the camera when previously the officer had to manually enter the plate. I wouldn't be surprised if the data about the scans goes the other way too. Proof of registration was made electronic in 2016 and again checked on the computer. Driving a car isn't a right but a privilege so I'm on with this.
  - syrrim 9y ago
    >Driving a car isn't a right but a privilege so I'm ok with this That's an interesting perspective. I get it in the sense of safe driving - if you are swerving all about the road, you shouldn't be on the road - but it doesn't work so well for registration and tracking. Bare minimum, people should have a right to get around. So much of what people want to do in their life is beyond walking distance, that some method of transport is necessary to get there. This isn't a political right, but rather a pratical right - something that people need to be able to do to live a full life. At the extreme, house arrest involes banning a person from going anywhere, and is clearly a (perhaps necessary) breach of their rights. In particularly rural areas, banning someone from owning a car would amount to banning them from going anywhere. So I think it makes sense to say someone has a right to own a car. We ban poor drivers from the road merely because other rights are more important than driving is. For example, my right to safety is more important than your right to drive. If your dangerous driving puts my safety in question, than you should be taken off the road. However, if you manage to drive without infringing other's rights, than the government shouldn't be able to stop you from driving.

oculusthrift 9y ago

then why does it take so long to find kidnapped kids when we know the car the perp is in?

RyanZAG 9y ago
Just because the data exists doesn't mean it is used.
code_duck 9y ago
They’re probably busy using the data to find drug money or something else that they’re actually interested in.
- jermaustin1 9y ago
  You are getting down voted, but you are accurate. The agencies have to pay for them some how, and money busts (not drugs, though related to drugs) are the best way. It doesn't mean they prioritize those crimes over kidnappings, but it means the department that gets access to the system first until it's are paid off is the narcotics division.

Andrenid 9y ago

What do they do with the data? Is it just for law enforcement to find people, or is there value in the data?

jermaustin1 9y ago
There are a few vendors out there who sell the data they collect, and then sell search capabilities to law enforcement agencies, repo firms, bounty hunters, etc. These camera systems are usually installed on civilian cars and those people just drive around all day on 10 hours shifts around their territory. They aren't looking for people, only collecting the data. Some of them get rights to add cameras to signs in front of shopping centers on busy streets. Some have even illegally placed them next to red light cameras that use an open wi-fi to upload the data back to their database. Its the wild west for some of these guys, but they make almost no money once you account for the cost of the cameras, cost of staff to drive around, etc.

NotSammyHagar 9y ago

This is the most terrifying thing I've seen that moves us toward the potential for real authoritarian societal control. The reason is we have a terrible history of being able to legally correct incorrect information in these separate local and national databases. So you can use this as another way to suppress disagreements and suppress protests against those in power. I'm an american citizen and it's my right to protect. Imagine there's a big protest and the next day the local police or fbi comes to your house to ask why you were in the neighborhood where the protest was. It can happen now. I can turn off my phone or choose not to take it, but transportation is required to get there. My bus pass is also a history of my travels. I just contacted my us rep and senators about this. I would be surprised if we can stop this, but we should try. Read David Brin's "Kiln People" for an interesting take, he foresaw this issue, also read "Transparency"

EADGBE 9y ago

It never really bothered me that police cars contained these cameras. But for some weird reason civilian cars carrying these cameras (and collecting and re-selling my plate information) really infuriates me.