4 ms·

Isn't any form of "monster" just a cheap "this thing is evil" marker?

gwern 9y ago
I don't think so. Are the monsters in _Shadow of the Colossus_ evil? Are Humbaba or the Bull of Heaven in Gilgamesh evil? After all, Humbaba may have been 'terrible' but that was his assignment from the gods. (Was Satan the tempter in the Book of Job Evil with a capital E?) They may be dangerous to humans and destructive, but they are merely doing their job or following their nature. It might be better to refer to them, Rowlingesque, as 'fantastic beasts' rather than 'monsters' to avoid the loaded connotations.
- goatlover 9y ago
  Are Jason, Freddy and Michael Myers just monsters? What about the monsters and demons on Supernatural that the Winchester brothers kill because they hurt people? At what point is something a monster that does bad versus a bad guy that does bad?
  - gwern 9y ago
    Let me try again with an even more mundane example. Is a tiger an evil monster just because it may eat people? At what point is a tiger just an animal which does something people don't like vs a bad guy that does bad? How about a landslide? What would it take to make a landslide evil with a capital E?
    - dredmorbius 9y ago
      Tiger Tiger. burning bright, In the forests of the night; What immortal hand or eye. Could frame thy fearful symmetry? ... fire of thine eyes ... dread hand... dread feet ... dread grasp ... deadly terrors, etc., etc. Blake.
    - goatlover 9y ago
      In context of the article, it's the myth of good guys versus bad guys instead of gray characters. That means these characters have moral choices to make. A tiger doesn't understand morality, while Kylo Ren and does, but chooses to do join/stay on the dark side, which means causing a lot of people harm, which he's fully aware of. We don't hold a tiger morally responsible, while most of the beings on the tv show Supernatural would be, since they're capable of making moral choices. Even the ST Borg understand morality, although they consider it irrelevant. But the Federation would probably hold them responsible, if they had the power to put the Borg Queen on trial, like they ended up doing with the Changeling lead female character from the Dominion.

I don't think so. Are the monsters in _Shadow of the Colossus_ evil? Are Humbaba or the Bull of Heaven in Gilgamesh evil? After all, Humbaba may have been 'terrible' but that was his assignment from the gods. (Was Satan the tempter in the Book of Job Evil with a capital E?) They may be dangerous to humans and destructive, but they are merely doing their job or following their nature. It might be better to refer to them, Rowlingesque, as 'fantastic beasts' rather than 'monsters' to avoid the loaded connotations.

goatlover 9y ago
Are Jason, Freddy and Michael Myers just monsters? What about the monsters and demons on Supernatural that the Winchester brothers kill because they hurt people? At what point is something a monster that does bad versus a bad guy that does bad?
- gwern 9y ago
  Let me try again with an even more mundane example. Is a tiger an evil monster just because it may eat people? At what point is a tiger just an animal which does something people don't like vs a bad guy that does bad? How about a landslide? What would it take to make a landslide evil with a capital E?
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    Tiger Tiger. burning bright, In the forests of the night; What immortal hand or eye. Could frame thy fearful symmetry? ... fire of thine eyes ... dread hand... dread feet ... dread grasp ... deadly terrors, etc., etc. Blake.
  - goatlover 9y ago
    In context of the article, it's the myth of good guys versus bad guys instead of gray characters. That means these characters have moral choices to make. A tiger doesn't understand morality, while Kylo Ren and does, but chooses to do join/stay on the dark side, which means causing a lot of people harm, which he's fully aware of. We don't hold a tiger morally responsible, while most of the beings on the tv show Supernatural would be, since they're capable of making moral choices. Even the ST Borg understand morality, although they consider it irrelevant. But the Federation would probably hold them responsible, if they had the power to put the Borg Queen on trial, like they ended up doing with the Changeling lead female character from the Dominion.