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>I guess Beowulf and The Odyssey weren't moral face-offs? No, they aren't. What's the "moral face-off" in Beowulf? He goes to help the King of the Danes defea

>I guess Beowulf and The Odyssey weren't moral face-offs? No, they aren't. What's the "moral face-off" in Beowulf? He goes to help the King of the Danes defeat the monster Grendel. Then he returns home to become king and eventually dies fighting a dragon. Who is the "bad guy"? It's not a moral lesson about good and evil, but about virtues and qualities like bravery important to Anglo-Saxon society. Same with the Odyssey. What's the "moral face-off"? Who's the bad guy? Odysseus has to wander because he had angered the god Poseidon, and goes through a series of adventures and ordeals as a result. It's not a moral struggle of good and evil, it's again a tale about important qualities like obedience to the gods. Neither of those stories are "good guy vs. bad guy" stories in any way.

dvt 9y ago
Really? Why is Grendel characterized as "evil" and a "fiend in hell"? Why does Beowulf exemplify traits of courage, bravery, and self-sacrifice? Why is Beowulf already famous for his "good" and "glorious" deeds? I was re-reading the intro, and ran into this gem[1]: 105 the wretched creature ruled for a time since him the Creator had condemned with the kin of Cain; that killing avenged Totally forgot about this literal reference to Cain (of Cain and Abel fame). I mean, you're about as wrong as wrong gets. [1] http://www.heorot.dk/beowulf-rede-text.html http://www.heorot.dk/beowulf-rede-text.html
- Sangermaine 9y ago
  Nope. You’re confusing “antagonist” with “bad guy”. I’m fact, much of your confusion, and the confusion in the other comments, stems from conflating “protagonist” and “antagonist” with “hero” and “villain”. Beowulf is a tale of a brave warrior vanquishing monsters, not a struggle of good and evil, anymore than a story about someone hunting a wolf described as “monstrous” or “evil” is a moral tale. It’s similar to what the author points out about the Arthurian stories. The original French tales were about brave knights fighting beasts and monsters to display their strength and bravery. It was only later versions that transformed them into moral paragons fighting representations of human weaknesses and evils. I also note you conspicuously forgot the Odyssey in your response.
  - dvt 9y ago
    >Beowulf is a tale of a brave warrior vanquishing monsters, not a struggle of good and evil, anymore than a story about someone hunting a wolf described as “monstrous” or “evil” is a moral tale. Beowulf is a story about Beowulf displaying favorable virtues by overcoming a bunch of challenges. The Odyssey is a story about Odysseus displaying favorable virtues by overcoming a bunch of challenges. These virtues include justice, honor, courage, honesty, prudence, and so on -- this is the GOOD. The challenges include monsters, hardships, annoyed gods, and so on -- this is the EVIL. Your analysis is highly reductive. I guess the New Testament about a cool dude that made 12 friends.

dvt 9y ago

Really? Why is Grendel characterized as "evil" and a "fiend in hell"? Why does Beowulf exemplify traits of courage, bravery, and self-sacrifice? Why is Beowulf already famous for his "good" and "glorious" deeds? I was re-reading the intro, and ran into this gem[1]: 105 the wretched creature ruled for a time since him the Creator had condemned with the kin of Cain; that killing avenged Totally forgot about this literal reference to Cain (of Cain and Abel fame). I mean, you're about as wrong as wrong gets. [1] http://www.heorot.dk/beowulf-rede-text.html http://www.heorot.dk/beowulf-rede-text.html

Sangermaine 9y ago
Nope. You’re confusing “antagonist” with “bad guy”. I’m fact, much of your confusion, and the confusion in the other comments, stems from conflating “protagonist” and “antagonist” with “hero” and “villain”. Beowulf is a tale of a brave warrior vanquishing monsters, not a struggle of good and evil, anymore than a story about someone hunting a wolf described as “monstrous” or “evil” is a moral tale. It’s similar to what the author points out about the Arthurian stories. The original French tales were about brave knights fighting beasts and monsters to display their strength and bravery. It was only later versions that transformed them into moral paragons fighting representations of human weaknesses and evils. I also note you conspicuously forgot the Odyssey in your response.
- dvt 9y ago
  >Beowulf is a tale of a brave warrior vanquishing monsters, not a struggle of good and evil, anymore than a story about someone hunting a wolf described as “monstrous” or “evil” is a moral tale. Beowulf is a story about Beowulf displaying favorable virtues by overcoming a bunch of challenges. The Odyssey is a story about Odysseus displaying favorable virtues by overcoming a bunch of challenges. These virtues include justice, honor, courage, honesty, prudence, and so on -- this is the GOOD. The challenges include monsters, hardships, annoyed gods, and so on -- this is the EVIL. Your analysis is highly reductive. I guess the New Testament about a cool dude that made 12 friends.