4 ms·

This would hurt consumers. Closed hardware has advantages (as well as disadvantages), and consumers should not be forced to forgo these. If you want to change y

This would hurt consumers. Closed hardware has advantages (as well as disadvantages), and consumers should not be forced to forgo these. If you want to change your own battery, you are free to buy a phone from a manufacturer other than Apple.

Retric 9y ago
Apple iPhone would actually qualify as repairable by these guidelines. The goal is to prevent things like glued batteries which provide zero benefit to consumers. Similar rules apply to cars which need not be easy to repair just possible to repair.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > The goal is to prevent things like glued batteries which provide zero benefit to consumers I’m a consumer who prefers thinner devices over easily-repairable ones. (At today's levels of miniaturization, saving the volume fasteners would occupy might permit an additional co-processor, or some other useful functionality.) A state government dictating how non-essential, competitively-produced consumer electronics should be designed is textbook overreach. Minimum warranty periods, increased warranty scope, increased recycling taxes, open schematic requirements, et cetera better target the factors we care about. Better targeting minimises unintended consequences. Unfortunately, that bill wouldn’t earn its drafters pitchfork points.
  - Retric 9y ago
    I like thin devices and use an iPhone without a case for that very reason. However, as I said noting stops me from repairing an iPhone which IMO is great. Glue does not allow for thinner devices, non removable batteries do but that's a different thing. It sometimes saves fractions of a cent for the manufacture and that's about it. Now, if we want to make an exception for anything under 200$ I would say that's reasonable, but past that point most people want at least the option to try and have something fixed.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      It sounds like constraining battery replacement costs to a certain fraction of MSRP would be a cleaner solution than banning specific design methods.
      - Retric 9y ago
        It's not just batteries. It's getting a nick on the case and replacing the case not the device. Or cracking a screen on an otherwise fully functional device. Or having a kid put gum in a charging port and being able to replace that etc.
        JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        Sure, but optimising those components for home replacement forces trade-offs elsewhere. You don’t like those trade-offs. I do. I don’t see why your view merits regulatory intervention while mine doesn’t.
        Retric 9y ago
        Home replacement is not on the table. Again iPhone design is completely acceptable under these rules. My viewpoint minimizes externalities and makes the economy more efficient. Your viewpoint increases consumer costs without any benefit. Considering democratic rule is based on the people net benifit wins.
        greglindahl 9y ago
        ... my local independent iPhone repair store appears to provide all of those services for a pretty low price.
        Retric 9y ago
        iPhones qualify as reparable under these guidelines. So yes they can be repaired and Apple would not need to change anything.
travbrack 9y ago
Please elaborate
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
pishpash 9y ago
Closed hardware has what advantages? I can see forcing consumers onto one platform has advantages (as well as disadvantages) but closed hardware by itself has no advantages I can see.
- teawrecks 9y ago
  Apple closes everything so they can maintain their image. The "it just works" image is hard to control if your customers are encouraged to do their own repairs, or pay an unauthorized person to repair it.
- simonh 9y ago
  It depends what you mean by closed. Gluing in batteries enables much thinner, lighter construction. Maybe you think that’s unnecessary for a phone, others might differ, but for things like AirPods it’s a huge difference. In any case this issue is at least partly overblown, dealing with glued components makes home repair hard, but professional workshops and recycling specialists can often use heat systems and solvents. Apple’s touchID is only secure if the system can trust the fingerprint data it gets from the touch sensor in the screen assembly. If anyone can plug in whatever screen assembly they like with no hardware secure identification, guaranteed security becomes impossible. The same is almost certainly true of the FaceID sensors. So yes there are very real direct advantages from these manufacturing methods and from closed hardware systems. Whether you care about them is up to you, but surely it’s also up to each of us to choose for ourselves?
  - pm24601 9y ago
    Did you notice that the recyclers are saying that the new macbooks are difficult to recycle. If Apple wants to continue to do this then they should be force to pay for the cost of recycling their product. The non-repairability is imposing a real pollution cost on the rest of the world. In recent news China has decided to stop taking in the rest of the world's garbage. The toxic metals are now going to be leaching in to US water supply not just China's. Recycling/reuse/repairability has a positive economic benefit.
pm24601 9y ago
Every other phone manufacturer is starting down this path of gluing things down. Part of the value of ownership is being able to repair your own purchases. Let me help you: > If you want to change your own car battery, you are free to buy a car from a manufacturer other than Ford.

Retric 9y ago

Apple iPhone would actually qualify as repairable by these guidelines. The goal is to prevent things like glued batteries which provide zero benefit to consumers. Similar rules apply to cars which need not be easy to repair just possible to repair.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> The goal is to prevent things like glued batteries which provide zero benefit to consumers I’m a consumer who prefers thinner devices over easily-repairable ones. (At today's levels of miniaturization, saving the volume fasteners would occupy might permit an additional co-processor, or some other useful functionality.) A state government dictating how non-essential, competitively-produced consumer electronics should be designed is textbook overreach. Minimum warranty periods, increased warranty scope, increased recycling taxes, open schematic requirements, et cetera better target the factors we care about. Better targeting minimises unintended consequences. Unfortunately, that bill wouldn’t earn its drafters pitchfork points.
- Retric 9y ago
  I like thin devices and use an iPhone without a case for that very reason. However, as I said noting stops me from repairing an iPhone which IMO is great. Glue does not allow for thinner devices, non removable batteries do but that's a different thing. It sometimes saves fractions of a cent for the manufacture and that's about it. Now, if we want to make an exception for anything under 200$ I would say that's reasonable, but past that point most people want at least the option to try and have something fixed.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    It sounds like constraining battery replacement costs to a certain fraction of MSRP would be a cleaner solution than banning specific design methods.
    - Retric 9y ago
      It's not just batteries. It's getting a nick on the case and replacing the case not the device. Or cracking a screen on an otherwise fully functional device. Or having a kid put gum in a charging port and being able to replace that etc.
      - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        Sure, but optimising those components for home replacement forces trade-offs elsewhere. You don’t like those trade-offs. I do. I don’t see why your view merits regulatory intervention while mine doesn’t.
        Retric 9y ago
        Home replacement is not on the table. Again iPhone design is completely acceptable under these rules. My viewpoint minimizes externalities and makes the economy more efficient. Your viewpoint increases consumer costs without any benefit. Considering democratic rule is based on the people net benifit wins.
      - greglindahl 9y ago
        ... my local independent iPhone repair store appears to provide all of those services for a pretty low price.
        Retric 9y ago
        iPhones qualify as reparable under these guidelines. So yes they can be repaired and Apple would not need to change anything.

travbrack 9y ago

Please elaborate

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

pishpash 9y ago

Closed hardware has what advantages? I can see forcing consumers onto one platform has advantages (as well as disadvantages) but closed hardware by itself has no advantages I can see.

teawrecks 9y ago
Apple closes everything so they can maintain their image. The "it just works" image is hard to control if your customers are encouraged to do their own repairs, or pay an unauthorized person to repair it.
simonh 9y ago
It depends what you mean by closed. Gluing in batteries enables much thinner, lighter construction. Maybe you think that’s unnecessary for a phone, others might differ, but for things like AirPods it’s a huge difference. In any case this issue is at least partly overblown, dealing with glued components makes home repair hard, but professional workshops and recycling specialists can often use heat systems and solvents. Apple’s touchID is only secure if the system can trust the fingerprint data it gets from the touch sensor in the screen assembly. If anyone can plug in whatever screen assembly they like with no hardware secure identification, guaranteed security becomes impossible. The same is almost certainly true of the FaceID sensors. So yes there are very real direct advantages from these manufacturing methods and from closed hardware systems. Whether you care about them is up to you, but surely it’s also up to each of us to choose for ourselves?
- pm24601 9y ago
  Did you notice that the recyclers are saying that the new macbooks are difficult to recycle. If Apple wants to continue to do this then they should be force to pay for the cost of recycling their product. The non-repairability is imposing a real pollution cost on the rest of the world. In recent news China has decided to stop taking in the rest of the world's garbage. The toxic metals are now going to be leaching in to US water supply not just China's. Recycling/reuse/repairability has a positive economic benefit.

pm24601 9y ago

Every other phone manufacturer is starting down this path of gluing things down. Part of the value of ownership is being able to repair your own purchases. Let me help you: > If you want to change your own car battery, you are free to buy a car from a manufacturer other than Ford.