6 ms·

1. single study 2. from 2004 3. small sample size (60 patients) 4. flu symptoms self-reported by patients 5. no proposed mechanism of action. how exactly do

1. single study 2. from 2004 3. small sample size (60 patients) 4. flu symptoms self-reported by patients 5. no proposed mechanism of action. how exactly does elderberry cure the flu? and, oh yeah... 6. most published medical research findings are false https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/ 7. everyone please just get the flu vaccine!

6d6b73 9y ago
Current flu vaccine is only 10-30% effective.. No thanks.
- killjoywashere 9y ago
  This year. You really should go volunteer at a hospital before you decide your inaction hasn't killed a baby or senior.
  - 6d6b73 9y ago
    Yeah yeah I'm a baby and old people killer. Anything else you would like to add?
- ouid 9y ago
  10-30% is significant. What exactly are you saying isn't worth it?
  - 6d6b73 9y ago
    What I'm saying is that there really is a little proof that the vaccine this year is even working. Would any other drug ESTIMATED to be only 10% effective be approved by the FDA?
    - killjoywashere 9y ago
      Considering the impact vs risk, yes. Definitely. Source: I'm running one of the clinical labs that's flogging the machines to run the tests for all the sick people. I see the data before the providers do, and have MPHs and epidemiologists tracking it.
- ac29 9y ago
  "CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9.2 million and 35.6 million illnesses, between 140,000 and 710,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 and 56,000 deaths annually since 2010." [0] Even if it was only 5% effective, wide-scale vaccination would make a large difference. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/burden.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/burden.htm
- op00to 9y ago
  If you were dying and the doctor suggested a treatment with 10-30% success rate, would you just give up and shout yourself in the head?
  - 6d6b73 9y ago
    Apples to oranges. Try again.
- y0ssar1an 9y ago
  You are spreading FUD that's harmful to public health. The CDC has replied to the 10% figure circulating in the media: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.ht... The 2018 flu season is ongoing. How could there be any conclusive research about vaccine effectiveness in the 2018 flu season when we're right in the middle of it? The CDC is unequivocal about getting vaccinated. Everyone 6 months of age and older should get a flu vaccine every season. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/consumer/vaccinations.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/consumer/vaccinations.htm
  - 6d6b73 9y ago
    10% number is from Australia. USA is not the only country in the world, you know that right?
djKianoosh 9y ago
it's not a vaccine, is it?
Alex3917 9y ago
> everyone please just get the flu vaccine! There is evidence that the flu vaccine may increase your risk of dying from the flu in future years. I still got it this year, but it's also not at all clear that spending twenty bucks to keep a thing of elderberry extract in the house is a worse option.
- frozenport 9y ago
  There is no mechanisms of action, unlike flu shots.
- y0ssar1an 9y ago
  [citation needed]
- cpncrunch 9y ago
  >There is evidence that the flu vaccine may increase your risk of dying from the flu in future years A large meta-analysis shows the opposite: http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/709081/efficacy-influenza-vaccine-elderly-persons-meta-analysis-review-literature http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/709081/efficacy-influ... >it's also not at all clear that spending twenty bucks to keep a thing of elderberry extract in the house is a worse option. If you believe a small single study over a large meta-analysis...
  - Alex3917 9y ago
    I don't have access to the full text, but this certainly isn't mentioned in the abstract.
    - cpncrunch 9y ago
      The study I posted shows there is a reduced risk of death from vaccination in the current year. I couldn't find anything about risk of death in future. Is that really a problem if you take the vaccine every year? Do you have a reference?
deagle50 9y ago
I knew someone who took the vaccine, got the flu from it, then died. No thanks, I'll stick to elderberry and take my chances.
stochastic_monk 9y ago
This link needs a [2004] tag. Without a marked date, it incorrectly suggests that this is new research. (Considering that this is hacker news.)
- dang 9y ago
  OK, we added the year above.

6d6b73 9y ago

Current flu vaccine is only 10-30% effective.. No thanks.

killjoywashere 9y ago
This year. You really should go volunteer at a hospital before you decide your inaction hasn't killed a baby or senior.
- 6d6b73 9y ago
  Yeah yeah I'm a baby and old people killer. Anything else you would like to add?
ouid 9y ago
10-30% is significant. What exactly are you saying isn't worth it?
- 6d6b73 9y ago
  What I'm saying is that there really is a little proof that the vaccine this year is even working. Would any other drug ESTIMATED to be only 10% effective be approved by the FDA?
  - killjoywashere 9y ago
    Considering the impact vs risk, yes. Definitely. Source: I'm running one of the clinical labs that's flogging the machines to run the tests for all the sick people. I see the data before the providers do, and have MPHs and epidemiologists tracking it.
ac29 9y ago
"CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9.2 million and 35.6 million illnesses, between 140,000 and 710,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 and 56,000 deaths annually since 2010." [0] Even if it was only 5% effective, wide-scale vaccination would make a large difference. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/burden.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/burden.htm
op00to 9y ago
If you were dying and the doctor suggested a treatment with 10-30% success rate, would you just give up and shout yourself in the head?
- 6d6b73 9y ago
  Apples to oranges. Try again.
y0ssar1an 9y ago
You are spreading FUD that's harmful to public health. The CDC has replied to the 10% figure circulating in the media: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.ht... The 2018 flu season is ongoing. How could there be any conclusive research about vaccine effectiveness in the 2018 flu season when we're right in the middle of it? The CDC is unequivocal about getting vaccinated. Everyone 6 months of age and older should get a flu vaccine every season. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/consumer/vaccinations.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/consumer/vaccinations.htm
- 6d6b73 9y ago
  10% number is from Australia. USA is not the only country in the world, you know that right?

djKianoosh 9y ago

it's not a vaccine, is it?

Alex3917 9y ago

> everyone please just get the flu vaccine! There is evidence that the flu vaccine may increase your risk of dying from the flu in future years. I still got it this year, but it's also not at all clear that spending twenty bucks to keep a thing of elderberry extract in the house is a worse option.

frozenport 9y ago
There is no mechanisms of action, unlike flu shots.
y0ssar1an 9y ago
[citation needed]
cpncrunch 9y ago
>There is evidence that the flu vaccine may increase your risk of dying from the flu in future years A large meta-analysis shows the opposite: http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/709081/efficacy-influenza-vaccine-elderly-persons-meta-analysis-review-literature http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/709081/efficacy-influ... >it's also not at all clear that spending twenty bucks to keep a thing of elderberry extract in the house is a worse option. If you believe a small single study over a large meta-analysis...
- Alex3917 9y ago
  I don't have access to the full text, but this certainly isn't mentioned in the abstract.
  - cpncrunch 9y ago
    The study I posted shows there is a reduced risk of death from vaccination in the current year. I couldn't find anything about risk of death in future. Is that really a problem if you take the vaccine every year? Do you have a reference?

deagle50 9y ago

I knew someone who took the vaccine, got the flu from it, then died. No thanks, I'll stick to elderberry and take my chances.

stochastic_monk 9y ago

This link needs a [2004] tag. Without a marked date, it incorrectly suggests that this is new research. (Considering that this is hacker news.)

dang 9y ago
OK, we added the year above.