6 ms·
Efficacy of elderberry extract for treatment of influenza a and B virus (2004)
- cpncrunch 9y agoHas it been replicated?
- UncleEntity 9y agoMaybe Monty Python was on to some lost knowledge with their "your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries"? Or not...
- mar77i 9y agoSo, did she spread the plague to everyone but your father?
- farseer 9y agoThe study is from 2004. If the claims are as described i.e. symptom relief 4 days earlier. This would be better efficacy than tamiflu.
- jws 9y agoThe duration of cough and days missed from work are not significantly different in the two groups. The number that is improved with elderberry is a self assessment score for a number of factors about how the patient feels. Their congestion and mucus production got under control faster. It’s worth mentioning that the study was commissioned by the company selling the elderberry infused foods and syrups more than 10 years ago and notes in its abstract that it needs to be replicated. Found a PDF at: http://www.sambucol.co.il/_Uploads/dbsAttachedFiles/sambucol_research2004_international_medical.pdf http://www.sambucol.co.il/_Uploads/dbsAttachedFiles/sambucol...
- Alex3917 9y ago> This would be better efficacy than tamiflu. The company that makes Tamiflu faked the research on its efficacy, so it's not clear that in provides any benefit at all.
- JoeAltmaier 9y agoSo many ways this could have gone wrong. The taste; the look; the mouth feel could have given it away. People know they are using a placebo; they'll report differently. I'm imagining that elderberry extract is a commonly-used Norway thing, so the test subjects would have been set up perfectly to identify the placebo?
- jws 9y agoAccording to the study: To make the study blind, the placebo syrup had an identical appearance and taste and was supplied in the same type of bottles. The placebo syrup did not contain the elderberry extract, but was otherwise identical. Both syrups were produced and supplied by Razei Bar Ltd (Jerusalem, Israel).
- JoeAltmaier 9y agoYeah yeah. And if you've been taking it all your life, that's all whistling in the wind. No way is anything with flavor 'identical'.
- callmeal 9y agoPlacebo's work even when people know they are taking one.[1] [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/placebo-can-work-even-know-placebo-201607079926 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/placebo-can-work-even-kn...
- JoeAltmaier 9y agoBut traditional cures are believed more. If grandmother said it worked, then if you're taking a placebo it can't possibly work, not as well anyway. Self-reporting sucks. A more believable study would find some way to objectively measure symptoms.
- mikeytown2 9y agoNot a drug so not a lot of money to be made long term. I’m really surprised this even got funding to be studied. Spend money marketing something that isn’t unique or patentable is usually a loosing game. For example if you pitched this on shark tank you’d have no investors because it’s not defendable.
- thatcat 9y agoFinding a good shark tank pitch is not the purpose of academic research.
- mikeytown2 9y agoMost research is funded by companies wanting to make money in the long run. This is the point I was trying to get across; thanks for letting me clarify this point :)
- deagle50 9y agoI can anecdotally vouch for this. A friend told me about elderberry a few years ago when I told him I had flu symptoms. I went to Whole Foods around 7pm and bought the extract. Took a double dose with Vit C and D and tons of water every 4-6 hours. One ibuprofen as needed to keep my temperature down. Woke up the next day around noon and the flu was gone. Been using it ever since.
- y0ssar1an 9y ago1. single study 2. from 2004 3. small sample size (60 patients) 4. flu symptoms self-reported by patients 5. no proposed mechanism of action. how exactly does elderberry cure the flu? and, oh yeah... 6. most published medical research findings are false https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/ 7. everyone please just get the flu vaccine!
- 6d6b73 9y agoCurrent flu vaccine is only 10-30% effective.. No thanks.
- killjoywashere 9y agoThis year. You really should go volunteer at a hospital before you decide your inaction hasn't killed a baby or senior.
- 6d6b73 9y agoYeah yeah I'm a baby and old people killer. Anything else you would like to add?
- ouid 9y ago10-30% is significant. What exactly are you saying isn't worth it?
- 6d6b73 9y agoWhat I'm saying is that there really is a little proof that the vaccine this year is even working. Would any other drug ESTIMATED to be only 10% effective be approved by the FDA?
- killjoywashere 9y agoConsidering the impact vs risk, yes. Definitely. Source: I'm running one of the clinical labs that's flogging the machines to run the tests for all the sick people. I see the data before the providers do, and have MPHs and epidemiologists tracking it.
- glaugh 9y agoThese things are always underresearched, but there's more evidence than just this. For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11399518/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11399518/ https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ethan_Basch/publication/259696401_An_Evidence-Based_Systematic_Review_of_Elderberry_and_Elderflower_Sambucus_nigra_by_the_Natural_Standard_Research_Collaboration/links/02e7e534e9f25f02b4000000/An-Evidence-Based-Systematic-Review-of-Elderberry-and-Elderflower-Sambucus-nigra-by-the-Natural-Standard-Research-Collaboration.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ethan_Basch/publication...
- entwife 9y ago"Elderberry Supplementation Reduces Cold Duration and Symptoms in Air-Travellers: A Randomized, Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled Clinical Trial" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4848651/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4848651/
- DoofusOfDeath 9y agoThere's an old joke: Q: Does chicken soup actually help people recover from colds more quickly? A: It can't hoit! [ed: "hoit" = the word "hurt" with a strong regional/cultural accent applied. For some reason it's part of the joke.] I wonder if it's sensible to apply similar reasoning to traditional remedies such as elderberries, when (a) we have at weak evidence supporting their efficacy, and (b) no reason to think they're harmful.
- IntronExon 9y agoThe official guidance regarding Vit C supplements is just that; they’re cheap and harmless, so why not?
- stochastic_monk 9y agoI secretly hope your first name is [Eu]Gene.
- rabboRubble 9y agoOne of the possible contributing factors to the 1918 influence death rate was the use of aspirin to treat patients. It was put under the “can’t hurt” bucket. While something harmless like a food product seems like a harmless enough recommendation, remember aspirin is a chemical equivalent to white willow bark tea. Edit: a sample source for increased influence mortality with salicylate therapy https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/49/9/1405/301441 https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/49/9/1405/301441
- IntronExon 9y agoI don’t think anyone with a medical degree thinks of aspirin as harmless. If you have any issues with bleeding, it can kill you. Vit C is different, but let me be clear that I’m not endorsing it. AFAIK there is no known toxicity related to Vit C, it’s ubiquitous in most modern diets, and has no secondary effects such as blood thinning. Aspirin is often thought of as harmless by some, but it’s a powerful drug with numerous effects. Vit C is just ascorbic acid.