7 ms·

The most successful language in the last twenty years.

danieldk 9y ago
Arguably, that would be Java, which was introduced in 1995. For whatever hey are worth, most language popularity indexes (TIOBE, LangPop) place Java above Python with quite a large margin. Java may not get much exposure here or in startups, but if you go out in the real world of 'boring' business applications, Java is pretty much the defacto language (together with C#).
- tejinderss 9y ago
  Python surpasses java according to github statistics http://www.benfrederickson.com/ranking-programming-languages-by-github-users/ http://www.benfrederickson.com/ranking-programming-languages...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - lstyls 9y ago
    Sample bias. I suspect the vast majority of binaries in the wild were compiled with little, if any, code hosted on GitHub.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    The majority of companies across the world don't have any repository on Github. Github is for FOSS projects, or building CV portfolios for startups that think we don't have anything else to do after work.
    - ageofwant 9y ago
      Not so sure about that. Most company repos are private though, like the one I work for.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        I am yet to work for any customer that cares about git for example, so not even private repos. So far my use of git has been on personal projects.
        ageofwant 9y ago
        My anecdata is exactly the opposite: I have worked for four companies in the last 12 years, 2 big multinationals, mining and defence. All four used git.
        sireat 9y ago
        Lots of large companies use git internally but they do not necessarily use github for hosting. Gitlab self hosted is just one of many options.
        orf 9y ago
        I guess you just work for a poor quality of customer?
        pjmlp 9y ago
        Fortune 500 companies. Quality is debatable.
        orf 9y ago
        > Quality is debatable. Using a VCS is not though. And sure, you didn't say they didn't, but using SVN or CVS in 2017 isn't good (outside of a very few select situations/industries). Don't be proud of working for large, slow moving companies with poor tech choices. They don't use git yet but they will.
        Xixi 9y ago
        Don't forget mercurial: it's not used much for FOSS due to GitHub, but has a pretty strong hold in private companies. It's better than git (historically, not sure if it's still true in 2018) at dealing with Windows and huge repositories. And perforce for the truly humongous code bases...
- kumarvvr 9y ago
  I don't get why Python can't replace Java in almost all domains. It's exceptionally well structured and fast enough for most use cases.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Maybe one day, when CPython guys start taking JIT seriously and finally get rid of GIL.
    - kumarvvr 9y ago
      Isn't multiprocessing + caching like Redis a good enough workaround? I know that it works well for web applications. Not sure about other domains.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        The day Python performance gets good enough for companies to even think about doing a complete OS userspace on it, maybe. Until then, no.
        orf 9y ago
        That's.... Ridiculous.
        pjmlp 9y ago
        Ridiculous is suggesting Python is capable of replacing Java in what concerns performance. Specially when it needs extensions written in C or C++ for anything that requires it.
        orf 9y ago
        Ridiculous is thinking you could write a whole OS userspace in Java. Ridiculous is making that comment without realising Python is a core part of most modern *nix userspace. try uninstalling Python on a default Ubuntu/Fedora/Centos install and see what still works. I would suggest trying the same with Java, but nobody bundles that by default despite it's JIT. Ridiculous is pontificating about how useless Python is without C/C++, clearly without knowing much about the language and its strengths. I've known people who say the same kind of things, who write reams of very poor, unidiomatic Python code and wonder why it's slow, not wanting to accept that it's their bad code that's slow!
- kalefranz 9y ago
  According to [this](https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/06/incredible-growth-python/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/06/incredible-growth-pyth...) Stack Overflow study: "Python stands alone as a tag that is both large and growing rapidly; the next-largest tag that shows similar growth is R."
  - danieldk 9y ago
    I would really be careful to use StackOverflow statistics as a proxy of language popularity. There are many ways that Python's relative popularity compared to Java on StackOverflow can be explained. For example: Python is used more by hobbyist programmers, hence more questions about it. Or: Java is taught in many universities, so people generally have fewer questions about Java. If you go outside this filter bubble and look at the large IT companies, such as IBM, Oracle, Accenture, Atos, Capgemini, SAP, etc. they are all JVM/.NET shops. Also, on job sites such as Indeed, there are more Java jobs than Python jobs (currently respectively ~60,000 vs. 47,000 in the US) [1]. Note, I am not denying that Python is popular. Python is immensely popular. And I definitely like the Python ecosystem more than the Java ecosystem. I was just contending that the original statement that Python is the most successful language in the last 20 years is concorrect. Java is younger and is (still) more widely used in companies. Of course, Python may or may not surpass Java some day. [1] Also, the positions mentioning Java often require that an applicant knows Java, whereas ads with Python often have wording such as "dynamic languages such as Javascript, Ruby, Python, and Perl are preferred".
    - smoe 9y ago
      I wouldn't argue that Java is a lot bigger than Python in real world adaption. But the Stackoverflow graph that was posted above looks at growth over the last past 5 years. I have been working with Python for 12 years and only in the last few did I get the impression that it is a popular language. For example when I'm interviewing candidates for a junior dev position, pretty much all of them have at least some Python experience from University, whereas when I started all the fellow Python programmers either learned it on the job or in their spare time. I do agree that StackOverflow isn't a good proxy, but I could image Python getting more new regular users than Java at the moment.
anta40 9y ago
What parameters do you use to measure the "successfulness" of a programming language? I like Python, but as an Android developer, well Java is still the obvious choice for me.

Arguably, that would be Java, which was introduced in 1995. For whatever hey are worth, most language popularity indexes (TIOBE, LangPop) place Java above Python with quite a large margin. Java may not get much exposure here or in startups, but if you go out in the real world of 'boring' business applications, Java is pretty much the defacto language (together with C#).

tejinderss 9y ago
Python surpasses java according to github statistics http://www.benfrederickson.com/ranking-programming-languages-by-github-users/ http://www.benfrederickson.com/ranking-programming-languages...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- lstyls 9y ago
  Sample bias. I suspect the vast majority of binaries in the wild were compiled with little, if any, code hosted on GitHub.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  The majority of companies across the world don't have any repository on Github. Github is for FOSS projects, or building CV portfolios for startups that think we don't have anything else to do after work.
  - ageofwant 9y ago
    Not so sure about that. Most company repos are private though, like the one I work for.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      I am yet to work for any customer that cares about git for example, so not even private repos. So far my use of git has been on personal projects.
      - ageofwant 9y ago
        My anecdata is exactly the opposite: I have worked for four companies in the last 12 years, 2 big multinationals, mining and defence. All four used git.
        sireat 9y ago
        Lots of large companies use git internally but they do not necessarily use github for hosting. Gitlab self hosted is just one of many options.
      - orf 9y ago
        I guess you just work for a poor quality of customer?
        pjmlp 9y ago
        Fortune 500 companies. Quality is debatable.
        orf 9y ago
        > Quality is debatable. Using a VCS is not though. And sure, you didn't say they didn't, but using SVN or CVS in 2017 isn't good (outside of a very few select situations/industries). Don't be proud of working for large, slow moving companies with poor tech choices. They don't use git yet but they will.
        Xixi 9y ago
        Don't forget mercurial: it's not used much for FOSS due to GitHub, but has a pretty strong hold in private companies. It's better than git (historically, not sure if it's still true in 2018) at dealing with Windows and huge repositories. And perforce for the truly humongous code bases...
kumarvvr 9y ago
I don't get why Python can't replace Java in almost all domains. It's exceptionally well structured and fast enough for most use cases.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Maybe one day, when CPython guys start taking JIT seriously and finally get rid of GIL.
  - kumarvvr 9y ago
    Isn't multiprocessing + caching like Redis a good enough workaround? I know that it works well for web applications. Not sure about other domains.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      The day Python performance gets good enough for companies to even think about doing a complete OS userspace on it, maybe. Until then, no.
      - orf 9y ago
        That's.... Ridiculous.
        pjmlp 9y ago
        Ridiculous is suggesting Python is capable of replacing Java in what concerns performance. Specially when it needs extensions written in C or C++ for anything that requires it.
        orf 9y ago
        Ridiculous is thinking you could write a whole OS userspace in Java. Ridiculous is making that comment without realising Python is a core part of most modern *nix userspace. try uninstalling Python on a default Ubuntu/Fedora/Centos install and see what still works. I would suggest trying the same with Java, but nobody bundles that by default despite it's JIT. Ridiculous is pontificating about how useless Python is without C/C++, clearly without knowing much about the language and its strengths. I've known people who say the same kind of things, who write reams of very poor, unidiomatic Python code and wonder why it's slow, not wanting to accept that it's their bad code that's slow!
kalefranz 9y ago
According to [this](https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/06/incredible-growth-python/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/06/incredible-growth-pyth...) Stack Overflow study: "Python stands alone as a tag that is both large and growing rapidly; the next-largest tag that shows similar growth is R."
- danieldk 9y ago
  I would really be careful to use StackOverflow statistics as a proxy of language popularity. There are many ways that Python's relative popularity compared to Java on StackOverflow can be explained. For example: Python is used more by hobbyist programmers, hence more questions about it. Or: Java is taught in many universities, so people generally have fewer questions about Java. If you go outside this filter bubble and look at the large IT companies, such as IBM, Oracle, Accenture, Atos, Capgemini, SAP, etc. they are all JVM/.NET shops. Also, on job sites such as Indeed, there are more Java jobs than Python jobs (currently respectively ~60,000 vs. 47,000 in the US) [1]. Note, I am not denying that Python is popular. Python is immensely popular. And I definitely like the Python ecosystem more than the Java ecosystem. I was just contending that the original statement that Python is the most successful language in the last 20 years is concorrect. Java is younger and is (still) more widely used in companies. Of course, Python may or may not surpass Java some day. [1] Also, the positions mentioning Java often require that an applicant knows Java, whereas ads with Python often have wording such as "dynamic languages such as Javascript, Ruby, Python, and Perl are preferred".
  - smoe 9y ago
    I wouldn't argue that Java is a lot bigger than Python in real world adaption. But the Stackoverflow graph that was posted above looks at growth over the last past 5 years. I have been working with Python for 12 years and only in the last few did I get the impression that it is a popular language. For example when I'm interviewing candidates for a junior dev position, pretty much all of them have at least some Python experience from University, whereas when I started all the fellow Python programmers either learned it on the job or in their spare time. I do agree that StackOverflow isn't a good proxy, but I could image Python getting more new regular users than Java at the moment.

anta40 9y ago

What parameters do you use to measure the "successfulness" of a programming language? I like Python, but as an Android developer, well Java is still the obvious choice for me.